<p>Quote:
What do you think neighborhood watch is for?
Observation, documentation, and reporting. Confronting suspected criminals is NOT in the charter of any NW I have ever heard of.</p>
<p>I’m not part of a neighborhood watch; I don’t think one exists in my neighborhood, but if I saw someone suspicious around my house, I might greet them to try to find out what they were up to. If I did, would they be justified in getting on top of me, punching me in the face, and banging my head on the ground?</p>
<p>“NewHope, they weren’t scratches, they were lacerations.”</p>
<p>Fine, let’s go with “lacerations that required no medical treatment.” (I’m tempted to add “Mommy Mommy, Billy scraped me with a stick so I shot him to death” … but I’ve been warned to cool it with the sarcasm.)</p>
<p>Have you ever had someone on top of you punching you in the face and pounding your head into the ground?</p>
<p>Calmom then why were Martin’s only injuries other than the gunshot wound to his knuckles? The prosecution better hope they have a big week because so far there’s more evidence to convict Martin of assault than Zimmerman of manslaughter</p>
<p>Great, we’re all-out trying the victim now. The DEAD victim, in case you forgot. Who by the way had no DNA evidence on him. Wouldn’t GZ’s DNA be on his knuckles if he had punched him in the nose?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I might do this too, riprorin. Only problem is–Trayvon Martin was not “suspicious.”</p>
<p>To clarify about gated communities: Typically there is one main entrance with a guard house. Residents swipe a card or are admitted on sight by the guard. Guests have to check in with the guard. However many of them have pedestrian gates so residents can come and go other than by the main entrance. For all we know TM’s dad’s GF gave him a key or swipe card to get back in.</p>
<p>Very nice summary, calmom. There is a gap and unaccounted stuffs that Zimmerman walk-through seems to skip over. Zimmerman will not take the stand because he is going to have a lot of problems explaining the discrepancies which could really hurt him.</p>
<p>Ultimately, it comes down to this: Zimmerman admitted he shot Martin, and claims that he did it in self-defense, in fear of his life. As soon as he admits he shot Martin, a trial should be inevitable unless the surety of his self-defense is claim is just about perfect. Since it is not, he goes to trial, and since (as has been noted on here before) he is making an affirmative defense it is up to Zimmerman to prove that he was justified in his actions. Perhaps he will succeed in convincing the jury, but I have not seen anything to suggest that this trial is in any way improper, nor to suggest that either side has a clear claim to the truth.</p>
<p>It appears to me that Zimmerman went beyond his role as a neighborhood watchman, beyond the advice of police, instigated a confrontation based on an apparently false assumption, and shot a kid. This is simplistic, of course, but considering the number of errors and overly-aggressive actions of Zimmerman already acknowledged I would have a hard time affirming his self-defense claim.</p>
<p>Yes. The trial isn’t over. It’s very possible that the prosecution will present a more highly qualified medical expert to testify as to the degree of trauma that the recorded injuries probably represent.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that emergency room personnel deal with the victims of real beatings all the time, including victims of domestic violence - so they have experience with the difference between someone who falls and bangs their head as opposed to someone whose head is being pounded into concrete, and between someone who is punched in the nose once and someone who is pummelled. There are also medical experts who are able to testify in cases, such as child abuse, where the nature and extent of injuries are important to establish what took place. </p>
<p>I’m wondering what the recoil of the weapon that Zimmerman used would be. If Zimmerman did fire from a position when he was lying prone on his back (with Martin above him) – is it possible that the recoil is what caused him to bang his head on the sidewalk? (That is, maybe Martin socked him hard in the face and then backed off enough to give Zimmerman maneuvering room, Zimmerman then drew his gun and fired, and that’s when he hit his head.)</p>
AFAIK, there were no injuries observed on Martin’s hands or knuckles, other than a small abrasion near the ring finger of his non-dominant hand. If you can dig up the evidence that shows otherwise, please provide a link.</p>
<p>“Speaking of racial tensions in Florida, may I recommend the book “The Warmth of Other Suns” as being noteworthy?”</p>
<p>zm, thanks for recommending this book. It looks wonderful, and I hadn’t heard about it before. I don’t know how I missed it, given all the glowing reviews.</p>
I am not a member either, but through Scouts, family friends, and my local police-run gun range, I know a LOT of cops, including at least three who HAVE set up neighborhood watch programs. Want to know what one of the key tenets is?</p>
<p>Do not confront suspected criminals!</p>
<p>Know why? Because neighborhood watch members lack the training or responsibility to do such, and are more likely to cause problems than solve them.</p>
Not enough for what you describe. 9mm is pretty tame, you would need a hunting round (44 magnum or bigger, probably) to have a real shot at that kind of recoil-caused injury.</p>
<p>Lindzt - Opps. I didn’t realize that TM’s dad lived in the gated community. I thought he was living somewhere else and TM was visiting his dad’s gf.</p>
<p>One sucker punch in the nose can kill you. Why would anyone stand still without resisting and fighting back with deadly force to see if a second punch to your nose is necessary to drive your nose up into your brain to kill you?</p>
<p>“zm, thanks for recommending this book. It looks wonderful, and I hadn’t heard about it before. I don’t know how I missed it, given all the glowing reviews.”</p>
<p>It is am amazing book. Heartbreaking AND uplifting. I hope you read it so we can discuss it!</p>
<p>“why were Martin’s only injuries other than the gunshot wound to his knuckles?”</p>
<p>Why do you continue to claim things that contradict physical evidence? For the record, the Medical Examiner found NO injuries to TM’s knuckles. There was a single quarter-inch by eighth-inch abrasion where a wedding ring is normally worn.</p>
<p>Quote:
I’m not part of a neighborhood watch; I don’t think one exists in my neighborhood, but if I saw someone suspicious around my house, I might greet them to try to find out what they were up to. If I did, would they be justified in getting on top of me, punching me in the face, and banging my head on the ground?
I am not a member either, but through Scouts, family friends, and my local police-run gun range, I know a LOT of cops, including at least three who HAVE set up neighborhood watch programs. Want to know what one of the key tenets is?</p>
<p>Do not confront suspected criminals!</p>
<p>Know why? Because neighborhood watch members lack the training or responsibility to do such, and are more likely to cause problems than solve them.</p>
<p>I’ve seem some people in my neighborhood who look suspicious, but I wouldn’t call them “suspected criminals”. Zimmerman probably just thought Martin was behaving strangely, not that he was a criminal.</p>
<p>“To clarify about gated communities: Typically there is one main entrance with a guard house. Residents swipe a card or are admitted on sight by the guard. Guests have to check in with the guard. However many of them have pedestrian gates so residents can come and go other than by the main entrance. For all we know TM’s dad’s GF gave him a key or swipe card to get back in.”</p>
<p>Sally, this community did not have a guard. The main entrance was completely open, but I believe that the back entrance had a gate and required a code. Trayvon entered the complex (where he was staying as a guest of a resident, his father’s girlfriend) that evening through a well-worn shortcut, which is in constant use, particularly by kids coming home from school. It cut some distance off his path back from the 7-11.</p>