<p>But Zimmerman wasn’t a hired security officer, nor was he even acting in his capacity as neighborhood watch - a position that, not incidentally, is normally not an armed one as per police recommendations. Indeed, the reason civilian patrols aren’t advised to carry guns is precisely because they aren’t as well trained as police in the use of appropriate force. While Zimmerman was within his rights to be armed, he is also responsible for the consequences of that decision. And even security officers aren’t automatically off the hook in cases where procedure wasn’t followed or excessive force may have been used.</p>
<p>This is a case where context is extremely important. If Zimmerman had been on foot that night, I don’t think there would be enough evidence for manslaughter, because it wouldn’t be clear that his actions precipitated the conflict (I might think the fact that he was armed is a problem, but that’s a separate issue). But Zimmerman was in his car. He had no business getting out of it, and getting out of a safe place and walking into potential danger while carrying a gun invites the possibility of a deadly confrontation.</p>
<p>It’s a stupid decision, it doesn’t make him guilty. Only the law matters, you can’t convict him of murder because he broke the neighborhood watch rules. The only thing that does, is help you craft the motive.</p>
<p>“An example is the issue of GZ following TM. The 911 dispatcher said that “we don’t need you to do that” in regards to following TM, and some want to read that as prohibiting GZ from from doing so, thereby negating the self-defense claim.”</p>
<p>That is exactly what it means, maybe prohibiting is a strong word (your word), but from your background what does “we don’t need you to do that” mean? BTW, GZ responded with an “ok”.</p>
<p>“However, later in that same 911 call, GZ first agrees to meet the police by the clubhouse mailboxes, and then says, “actually could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?” to which the 911 dispatcher says, “okay yeah that’s no problem.” I read this as GZ saying that he is going to find the address where TM is, and that the 911 dispatcher agrees with this approach.”</p>
<p>I think you make your point here. I read that and I think if I was the dispatcher, I would have thought that GZ was going back to his car and maybe go to a spot that is easier to be identified, maybe at a landmark, to meet up with the officers. And BTW, I think they just agreed that he should not do that anymore (following).</p>
<p>Nearly 1100 posts boiled down into one succinct statement. Thank you Schokolade!! It’s certainly interesting reading to follow this thread, but it’s amazing the number of professional investigators and experts herein who “obviously” and “clearly” see what the evidence indicates. Pffft!! I call shenanigans on all of you…on both sides of the “discussion”.</p>
<p>There is only one absolute fact in all of this. TM is dead, and he shouldn’t be (I guess that’s 2 facts). EVERYTHING else, at least at this point, is speculation and opinion which has been GROSSLY skewed by personal biases on both sides. I haven’t seen (or heard rumors yet of) any piece of evidence that doesn’t have at least a “reasonable doubt” explanation from the opposing side. I’ll say it again…the jurors in this case are very likely not going to be any different than the posters here. The judge can instruct them all day long…it doesn’t remove personal biases and pre-judgments. I’d be willing to bet at least one of them is already planning their book deal.</p>
<p>Anyone that thinks justice will be done in this case is fooling themselves, regardless of the outcome. The media will be the only winners in this cesspool.</p>
<p>It sounds like they are trying to ask him not to proceed, they don’t NEED him. It’s not an order, and he is not bound by law or contract to obey. It is important and COULD show possible provocation.</p>
<p>Raiders, GZ’s own later statements in his police interview make it clear that he understood that they were instructing him not to follow - so he didn’t “follow” TM - he just “went in the same direction” as TM. The detective laughed out loud.</p>
<p>And you’re right - his proceeding in spite of being instructed not to do so is evidence of his state of mind - and his state of mind is what is at issue in the case.</p>
<p>I can see why the defense doesn’t want GZ testifying. They are playing his interview with police after the shooting and he is NOT very convincing on the details.</p>
<p>The police officer just grilled him on why he didn’t explain why he had been following TM. He had no answer other than “he didn’t have the opportunity.” And this was after TM asked him why he was. The officer didn’t seem to buy it.</p>
<p>He also keeps bringing up an earlier “suspicious” person in the neighborhood, from two or three weeks earlier.</p>
<p>From what I am hearing the police are being fair and reasonable in their questioning.</p>
<p>It’s a great story he’s telling of this beating, and he definitely put large bandaids on his head, but looking at his face, this is not the face of a man who was being beaten to death. Sorry.</p>
<p>Okay, I know this is serious, but has anyone noticed the SNL way his bandaids get bigger every successive day? As if the injuries are worse as the days go by?</p>
<p>That’s funny poetgrl but I could have an explanation for that. He buys his bandaids from Costco and ran out of the smaller sized bandaids so he started using the bigger ones. I did this a few times in the past.</p>
<p>This thread is so long and fast-moving. Wishing there was an hourly summary.</p>
<p>You know it’s bad when even Fox News is calling out inconsistencies in GZ’s story. A female analyst on now (not watching so didn’t see her name) just mentioned the contradiction of GZ saying he was following TM but then changing the story to say he jumped out from a bush.</p>
<p>GZ did not say Martin jumped out of a bush. GZ said he did not know where Martin came from but Martin was there to his side and the moved towards him and then punched him in the nose. That shows when the nose was broken.</p>
<p>Raiders83, you mentioned the CDC report a few pages back. From the words you used to describe it I believe that you’ve read about it from a story which has been widely circulated in the innumerable pro-gun websites. I looked at the pro-NRA story and also the CDC publication (which is just a draft at this point.) The “interpretation” of the CDC report in the pro-gun story is wildly inaccurate and distorted. (Kind of like the story that said the autopsy report said that TM’s knuckles are bruised.) If you rely on sources like that you are likely to end up with an unrealistic view of the world.</p>
<p>The good news is that the 20 year ban on the CDC funding studies into the impact of flooding the nation with handguns (pushed through Congress in the 1990s by the NRA) has been lifted, and in a couple of years we may have some data and analysis with some degree of reliability. The NRA-demanded absence of actual objective scientific studies has opened the door to frauds like Lott, Mustard, Kleck and Gertz, NRA flacks posing as academics. There are serious questions to be addressed (which is basically what the CDC report says) and having those questions examined by someone who is not in the back pocket of corporations with millions at stake will be a good thing.</p>
<p>“GZ said he did not know where Martin came from but Martin was there to his side and the moved towards him and then punched him in the nose.”</p>
<p>OK everybody, show of hands. How many of you, in your adult lives, have had this happen to you? “Oh yeah man, I was just standing there on the sidewalk when this kid slides up beside me and POW, smacks me right in the nose.” </p>
<p>I find it shocking that GZ is now claiming he had NO idea that TM died? Is it possible he is that stupid? what did he think would happen by being shot IN THE HEART</p>
bandaids on his head, but looking at his face, this is not the face of a man who was being beaten to death. Sorry.</p>![http://www.mojoimage.com/free-image-hosting-10/7901retreatmap2.jpg[/url]](http://www.mojoimage.com/free-image-hosting-10/7901retreatmap2.jpg%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
