<p>How do you mishandle an absence of DNA? OK, I guess it is possible, although I think it is a stretch, that the rain wash away ALL the DNA on the hands, but can the rain wash away blood on clothing? How do you violently attack someone so bad that he think he was going to die but there are hardly any visible sign?</p>
<p>to zooser, post 153- how he “gets around” it is this: he claims he had quit following TM, but that as he was heading back to his car, TM jumped him.
All must remember that according to GZ the shooting did not take place the minute he saw TM, or seconds later. This isn’t a kid reacting while he’s being confronted; it’s a kid who comes back after the confrontation to pick a fight.
All this according to GZ and time will tell if his claims are true.
Personally, I am one that will assume innocence until proven otherwise. To say he was shot for walking home may become known as true, but is as yet unproven. So far the only evidence is that given by GZ. </p>
<p>To lizard, I don’t think so. If you have received report after report of violent crime by a black male(s), I don’t think it unreasonable to be extra cautious about your example. In that example, you had specific reasons to be concerned. That is different than simply assuming a young black male is a felon based only on his being black.</p>
<p>I have most likely posted this previously but to me it is worth repeating- 20+ years ago when my D was born and my wife left her job I took a part time morning job with my States largest newspaper working in their delivery department. I worked from 2-5 or from 3-6. Hired at the same time as me was an African American male slightly younger than me. He took the job for the same reason as I did. We both drove small blue cars. I should tell you my eyesight is not great so since we covered different delivery areas everyday many times I would go up to the front porch of a home and it would be the wrong address I would just turn and leave.
After we were working for more then a year the boss asked my co-worker to go to a home to pick up their payment (they owed several months) the homeowner was supposed to hide the payment envelop in the bushes. My co-worker reacted as if my boss was crazy and then explained there was no way he could do that without fear of getting arrested or shot. Turns out that in the time we had been working he had been pulled over by the police a significant number of times. I believe he said over 40. I had never been pulled over once. We did the same exact job.</p>
<p>Tom, I’ve often wondered this. How can one tell the race of a person who is driving a vehicle in front of them? At night, it’s next to impossible (for me, at least). I don’t think it’s a whole lot easier in broad daylight.</p>
<p>Poetsheart, I cannot tell you how heartsick your son’s experience makes me. I remember when you described it before. It sickens me to know that he has to live with that burden.</p>
<p>Of course, most kids of that age wear hoodies. Most of them never encounter a punk like Zimmerman, thankfully.</p>
<p>IMHO, even if Trayvon DID confront Z–and the DNA evidence makes it pretty clear that any such confrontation was verbal–he was the one acting in self-defense. He was being stalked through the night by a grown man with a gun.</p>
<p>We would get in and out of the cars. Back in those days we put the papers on the porch.</p>
<p>nymomof2 repeats a good question, though in post 158. What if it had been a white kid in a hoodie, in a predominantly black neighborhood at night, after a number of reported crimes allegedly by a young white fellow? Would he have been free from harassment? Would he have been shot?
Don’t know the answer to that “what if…” but it’s an interesting hypothetical though.</p>
<p>And tom, I can tell you a story of a young black male that dated only white girls. No blacks, no Asians, no Hispanics, etc. I’m not sure others’ prejudices are relevant in the case of alleged self-defense against TM.</p>
<p>“Wasn’t it Trayvon who was a practitioner of MMA?”</p>
<p>No. There is absolutely no evidence of this. Initially, one of the witnesses claimed that Trayvon was raining blows on Zimmerman “MMA style,” but he recanted shortly afterward. There were some videos of MMA-style fighting circulated online a long time ago with the claim that Trayvon was one of the fighters, but these were discredited.</p>
<p>There has been a concerted effort to portray Trayvon as a thug, including circulation of photos of other people. Some of this has been done by the defense team. Very recently, within the last few weeks, Mark O’Mara gave a press conference to apologize for putting a fighting video on his website and claiming that one of the participants was Trayvon. He had to admit that it was not.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, most people are not paying much attention, and they hear a few things about Trayvon being a violent thug, and they believe it.</p>
<p>The claim about the missing DNA is that because it was raining, the blood washed away. And that the crime scene investigators did not bag Trayvon’s hands. It is certainly possible that the Sanford police dept screwed things up. They screwed a lot of things up that night. But I’m not sure rain could wash away DNA from under the fingernails. And the lack of bruising or injury on Trayvon’s hands remains (except for a tiny abrasion on his non-dominant hand, not on the knuckle).</p>
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<p>But of course Martin’s alleged history–whether it be fights, drugs, gang membership, or whatever–was not known to Zimmerman when Zimmerman targeted him. The media has tried to posthumously portray Martin as a “typical” thug. But by all accounts NOTHING in Martin’s behavior that night was menacing or threatening in the least. It seems Zimmerman was looking for trouble, and came up with the flimsiest of justifications to say he had found it.</p>
<p>Not quite right, Sally. “But by all accounts NOTHING in Martin’s behavior that night was menacing or threatening in the least.” There is one account that claims the opposite. One claim says that after the verbal confrontation, TM came back, jumped GZ, and was giving him a thrashing. Of course that claim is neither proven nor disproven.</p>
<p>“as he was heading back to his car, TM jumped him.”</p>
<p>Evidence for this?</p>
<p>“IMHO, even if Trayvon DID confront Z–and the DNA evidence makes it pretty clear that any such confrontation was verbal–he was the one acting in self-defense. He was being stalked through the night by a grown man with a gun.”</p>
<p>Zimmerman never identified himself or explained why he was interested in Trayvon. He admits this. So Trayvon was followed both by car and on foot by a strange man. He expressed fear to his friend by cell phone, and he tried to get away (Zimmerman told the NEN operator, “He’s running”).</p>
<p>I’m not sure whether or not Trayvon punched him. If he did, it would be justified. The shooting cannot be justified by a single punch or a fistfight, only by an imminent threat of death or serious injury.</p>
<p>Zimmerman is claiming that he was in imminent danger. I believe that he has to present some evidence of this, and the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was not in danger, or at least that a reasonable person would not have believed himself to be in danger.</p>
<p>By the way, part of the SYG law (which the defense is not invoking) is that the shooter cannot even be arrested or detained, and civil suits are prohibited.</p>
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<p>SYG is codified lawlessness. I don’t understand how we have so many blood-thirsty citizens who allow such laws to exist.</p>
<p>"But of course Martin’s alleged history–whether it be fights, drugs, gang membership, or whatever–was not known to Zimmerman when Zimmerman targeted him. The media has tried to posthumously portray Martin as a “typical” thug. But by all accounts NOTHING in Martin’s behavior that night was menacing or threatening in the least. It seems Zimmerman was looking for trouble, and came up with the flimsiest of justifications to say he had found it. "</p>
<p>That is certainly true, but if the defense can show that Trayvon had a violent history, then Zimmerman’s claim that Trayvon attacked him would be more credible. That history is lacking.</p>
<p>The defense is going pretty far. Yesterday they tried to have Trayvon’s father removed from the courtroom by claiming that he had called someone in Zimmerman’s family a “m**<strong><em>f</em></strong>**.” The problem is that when this person was put on the witness stand (unexpectedly for him), it turned out that this supposedly happened 2 weeks ago, not yesterday, and the witness was really squirming. It also turned out that he was a friend of the Zimmermans, not a family member. And he has a criminal history. O’Mara was told about this by Zimmerman’s wife, and the man was surprised to be put on the witness stand.</p>
<p>A shameful attempt to portray Trayvon’s grieving father as a menacing black man.</p>
<p>"SYG is codified lawlessness. I don’t understand how we have so many blood-thirsty citizens who allow such laws to exist. "</p>
<p>Florida’s SYG law, like similar laws in other states, was written by an outside interest group. Laws are frequently written by interest groups and introduced by tame legislators.</p>
<p>younghoss, my point was about Martin’s alleged history before that night…which Zimmerman knew nothing about. Zimmerman had no more justifiable reason to be suspicious of this particular kid walking down the street with a bag of Skittles and a bottle of iced tea than he would if it had been your kid or mine.</p>
<p>On tapes alone I think the one were TM says he is being followed would be another proof that Zimmerman went after him. Am I wrong?</p>
<p>@Tom, thanks, that explains it</p>
<p>@NYMom - you’re buying into the media’s portrayal of GZ, just as you accuse others of buying into an image of TM being put out there by his attorneys and others.
<<unfortunately, most="" people="" are="" not="" paying="" much="" attention,="" and="" they="" hear="" a="" few="" things="" about="" george="" being="" racist="" punk,="" believe="" it.="">></unfortunately,></p>
<p>newhope33:</p>
<hr>
<p>“as he was heading back to his car, TM jumped him.”</p>
<p>Evidence for this? </p>
<hr>
<p>The only evidence for this is Zimmerman’s word. I am not sure whether the defense lawyers can get this into evidence without putting Zimmerman on the stand. Maybe a lawyer could enlighten us?</p>
<p>sschickens:</p>
<hr>
<p>@NYMom - you’re buying into the media’s portrayal of GZ, just as you accuse others of buying into an image of TM being put out there by his attorneys and others.
<<unfortunately, most="" people="" are="" not="" paying="" much="" attention,="" and="" they="" hear="" a="" few="" things="" about="" george="" being="" racist="" punk,="" believe="" it.="">> </unfortunately,></p>
<hr>
<p>No. The incidents in Zimmerman’s past that I was referring to are well-documented.</p>