<p>“On tapes alone I think the one were TM says he is being followed would be another proof that Zimmerman went after him. Am I wrong?”</p>
<p>The evidence that Trayvon said he was being followed comes from the friend who was on the phone with him during much of that evening. She is on the witness list and the prosecutor referred to her during opening statements, so presumably she will be testifying. It will be up to the jury to decide whether or not she is credible, just like they will have to decide whether Zimmerman is credible (assuming he takes the stand, which I am willing to bet against).</p>
<p>There is hard evidence that Trayvon and the girl were on the phone together, but no recordings of their conversation.</p>
<p>Some years ago a woman I know lost her only child. He was a black man in his early 20s who was driving in Florida on vacation. One night he got a flat tire, and called his mom and told her he had to change his tire. He was crouched on the ground next to the tire when a police car pulled up behind his car. According to the police officer, the crouching black man had a tire iron in his hand, the policeman thought he was going to be attacked, so the policeman shot him dead. </p>
<p>Imagine that - a man changing a tire had a tire iron in his hand. Keep in mind this was the police officer’s version.</p>
<p>I just can’t even begin to imagine how young black men put up with this kind of treatment.</p>
<p>It is heartbreaking to think about what life is like for black men, young and otherwise. Michelle Obama has spoken about living with the fear that Barack would be killed (before he was president or a public figure). I remember during the Charles Stuart murder case in Boston (he shot his pregnant wife and claimed that “a black man” did it) reading that middle-aged, well-dressed, black businessmen, driving expensive cars, were stopped and questioned about the murder.</p>
<p>“I just can’t even begin to imagine how young black men put up with this kind of treatment.”</p>
<p>The statistics on NYC’s stop and frisk law are disheartening. Basically, on average every young black kid in the city has been stopped more than once. Black kids are well aware of the law. Most white kids, even at the same schools, are not aware of the law.</p>
<p>This may be the best possible outcome for understanding how TM came to be dead. Hard to see how it helps GZ though. “My Zimmerman, at the police station following the shooting you repeatedly referred to Mr. Martin as ‘the suspect.’ Could you please give us your definition of ‘suspect’ and tell us how you came to determine that Mr. Martin met that criteria.”</p>
<p>@NYmomof2 ok. I thought that they had the conversation of TM and the girl on tape. I guess that this complicates things a bit. The time of the call,
however, is still important and they can verify it by looking at the cell phone records (conversations too apparently but that’s another CC topic).</p>
<p>ddahwan, Do you mean that our national security data gathering effort includes recordings of cell phone calls? I thought that they had only records of which numbers called which numbers, and times.</p>
<p>I don’t think that the testimony of the friend is critical. She has said that Trayvon told her that a man was following him, and that he was running at one point. Zimmerman admits to following Trayvon and that Trayvon ran. She also reports on the verbal exchange that began the confrontation, but one of the witnesses heard that as well, and reported almost exactly the same thing. She doesn’t have anything to say about the crucial period just before Zimmerman shot Trayvon, because the phone call ended right after the initial verbal exchange.</p>
<p>Newhope33, Not only will going on the stand not help Zimmerman, it will expose him to cross-examination about his various stories, all videotaped.</p>
<p>NYmomof2 sorry to tell you. All digital data is recorded and stored for future reference “if needed”. We needed it in Boston. Did it help us? No.</p>
<p>ddahwan, no that is not true. Only meta-data are recorded, like time, source, destination of the call, length of the call, but not the content. If there is a suspicion, they can try to get court order to record the calls. Foreign calls are scanned for key words by super computer, and if a hit is detected, the calls can be listened to and recorded.</p>
<p>nymom is correct the evidence of what happened(so far) is what has been presented by the one known eyewitness.
Time will tell if the evidence is shown to be true.
there is a difference between evidence and proof.</p>
<p>Here is a reverse TM-GZ. Hispanic killed. Black suspect. Black guy in car at a Taco Bell shot and killed the hispanic who was out walking his dog. </p>
<p>Black male stayed at the scene. Claimed self defense alleging that the hispanic guy had been about to strike his car with a bat or club. Nothing like that found at the scene. The black guy never got out of his car, he just shot the hispanic guy.</p>
<p>The police did not arrest the black guy. A grand jury indictment only came about 110 days later.</p>
<p>Jurors never have to accept eye-witness accounts or forensics. Since as a general matter, the prosecution cannot appeal, the jury can refuse to convict with near impunity.</p>
<p>Anyone seen any stats of the percentage of appeals of criminal convictions that get flipped on the evidence not supporting guilt beyond a reasoanble doubt?</p>
<p>That is why the outcome of cases often comes down to prejudices not “facts.”</p>
<p>"That is why the outcome of cases often comes down to prejudices not ‘facts.’ "</p>
<p>Presuming this statement is correct, and I think it is, which prejudice is likely to prevail among the six female jurors?
(1) The Mother Bias (i.e., what if TM had been my child); or
(2) The Racial Bias (i.e., troubled black kid attacking ZM … yeah I can see that).</p>
<p>Let’s see. The OJ jury was 9 Black, 1 Hispanic, 2 whites–10 females.</p>
<p>Female victim, horrible murder up close and personal. Not guilty. </p>
<p>Mother bias– my son would not shoot someone unless he feared for his life, so GZ would not either. </p>
<p>Pollyanna bias–people are basically good. Perhaps GZ misinterpreted the degree of threat, but convicting GZ and sending him off for a zillion years isn’t going to bring TM back </p>
<p>The world is a dangerous place/juveniles are scary/I don’t like punks bias–8% of homicides in Florida are by juveniles. Homicide/manslaughter, attempted homicide/manslaughter, sexual battery and auto theft by juveniles are on the rise in Florida and the majority of juvenile felony offenses on the weekend occur during 7-9 at night.</p>