Currently at Williams, after picking it over Dartmouth(which is quite a common thing that happened to a lot of my friends at Williams), and I am extremely happy. A lot of them did not like Dartmouth after visiting post-acceptance(I never visited, but the more I read about it, the less I wanted to attend it vs Williams.) Williams is a very welcoming and open place that many people will fit in. I know quite a few people on sport teams that only hang out with their teammates, but also know athletes that are good friend/hang out with non-athlete. Age doesn’t really matter as there are quite a few 17s here. There are also a few that are a bit older due to serving in the military and such that have no trouble fitting in. If she like to party, there are at least two parties(drinking or not is totally up to you) on Friday night and 3+ on a Saturday night. If she doesn’t like to party, I know a lot of people who do wholesome nights like cooking, poker, movie, board game, concert/play, etc.
He didn’t say she’d missed two years of high school, just that she’d skipped two years. Maybe those two years were in elementary or middle school.
Oscar63, thanks for the idea, but she has no interest in doing research at a hospital and our university has more than enough undergraduates and graduates wanting to do research with professors, and having the necessary education to do so. It’s really only with direct, intensive supervision by a professor (usually at a small college) that undergraduates get to do much research early on anyway. At larger schools, the undergraduates are helping with research that is ongoing. She also can’t just do research all day and, again, would gather either no friends or friends that are college-age, or even older. So we’d be back with the same social issues–she’d be pretty isolated or a 16-year-old with older friends. The only difference might be she’d live at home.
Twoinandone, the problem with a horse ranch is, as with some other gap year ideas, she’d not be with anyone close to being a peer, neither age-wise nor, possibly, intellectually, socially, or with similar attitudes about the world. At college, at least she’d be certain to find people who can understand her and appreciate her. Yes, she didn’t “miss” two years of high school. Indeed, she has already had 3.5 years of being in the same building with high school students, taking two classes at the high school in eighth grade, then full-time since. We had talked with her principal about her staying at the school one more year, taking a second junior year (to give her another year at home) but our daughter very rightly rejected that, saying people would ask why she’s been “held back.” And her friends would graduate, leaving her to find a social network in students who hadn’t been at the high school as long as she and were not nearly at her academic level. Furthermore, there are almost no classes of any challenge left for her to take at the high school. Lookingforward, she has indeed been involved in a number of extracurriculars, as many as she can be without having to stay up extremely late to do homework (which she’s able to finish in her classes often after she’s finished her classwork or tests). Unfortunately, many of high school extracurriculars are empty, have little to them; for instance, political party groups. She’s been in debate for several years before she got exhausted by the competitions, she tutors regularly kids who need help in various subjects, she works on our family farm in the summers and helps to train horses for other people, she interns with a veterinarian, and she has tried to join a student magazine on women’s issues but has not heard back from the editor. (She’s tone-deaf, so music groups are out. Riding is her athletic activity and she rides 3-4 times a week, now that we have a good lease horse for the cost of its feed. The owners of her riding barn are being very kind to us to let her have this opportunity.) And, as I said, she studies Russian on her own (in addition to taking the under-stimulating, slow foreign language classes at her high school that most kids are just taking to fill a requirement). She’s also just a really good friend to her classmates, listening to their troubles. So, no, she’s not just an academic. She makes almost all A’s (two B’s in her entire career, and B’s by a thin margin), she’s taking classes like AP Calculus BC, AP Government, AP Psychology, AP English this year and more AP’s next year. I went to an Ivy (and interview for the school) and while she hasn’t started her own business, published a science paper, or created a computer app on her own, she’s no slouch. I think she’ll be seriously considered by some very competitive schools. No guarantees, obviously, but she’d be a better fit at competitive schools than at local mediocre ones, where the academic standards have to be necessarily lower, given the academic profile, abilities, and commitments of the average student.
My two daughters graduated from Dartmouth (2008 and 2011) and my stepson and I are both Williams (he’s class of 2020). I don’t know the equestrian scene at either. You’re unlikely to go wrong. Both are full of interesting and passionate kids. Both have plenty of kids on the young side. Both have lots of different types, from jocks to intellectuals to truly quirky. The frat/sorority scene at Dartmouth gets a bad rap, but my two daughters (not at all the sorority types; they would have never expected to join one) both have lifelong friends from their houses and the pressure to drink and party (for girls) is not as intense as it was for boys. Moreover, the administration cracks down more and more each year to keep the frats in line with acceptable campus behavior. I’d go visit and let your daughter figure out which feels more like her. Both daughters saw Williams and felt it wasn’t quite for them. Dartmouth was perfect. My stepson came out the exact opposite way and applied ED to Williams and that was that.
If I were in your shoes, one consideration would definitely be how accessible the college is for me as a parent.The fact that Williams is much smaller would appeal to me, but I’d be concerned about its remote location. I would want my 16 year old to be close enough for me to visit periodically in person to see how she’s doing. And I agree with those who say that your D may have no trouble holding her own academically but socially and emotionally it won’t be the same as dealing with kids who are 2 years older but themselves all still living at home with their parents. Also there’s a broad spectrum of colleges you can consider. It doesn’t have to be Dartmouth/Williams or “mediocre.”
“while she hasn’t started her own business, published a science paper, or created a computer app on her own…”
My comment about “missing” 2 years refers to the high school experience. I’m assuming this means she skipped 9th and 10th, if she’s now a junior.
And if you know Ivies, theyll evaluate 9th through first semester of 12th, not middle school. And that the above quoted activities are not what they look for.
Your challenge is to learn how to evaluate her match in comparison with thousands of others who show 3.5 years of peer and community activities and more. How they’ve stretched in various ways. It’s not just academics with a couple of “passions” she pursues on her own. Nor is it getting along well with older hs kids.
Good luck. Try digging into what the colleges look for, how they will view her.
Right. If she were my child, I’d want her within a 3-4 hour’s drive, close enough to get there and back within a day.
I also would be inclined to favor a LAC over a major university.
That said, I think she’ll be fine. A 16-year-old girl is often a young lady, while a boy of the same age is usually still a kid.
She will do fine at either, almost everyone who enrolls will graduate. It won’t be the same experience she would have 2 years later, but it will be ok.
@Gopies With the caveat that all kiddos are different, it is very possible for a 16 year old freshman to succeed in college, especially if she is emotionally mature. I know quite a few grade skipped (and twice grade skipped) kids and all are enjoying their college experiences. Most students and profs assume you’re 18 if you are a freshman and will not be checking IDs, so unless it comes up, many will never be aware of your DD’s age. Have some frank discussions about how cruel the world in general can be, and how to avoid unpleasant situations. Her smarts and emotional maturity will likely help her to navigate her way through college. Being part of the equestrian team will probably give her a leg up on finding a like-minded social group.
I am curious though, how does a school force whole grade acceleration on a student without any parental buy in? Most school districts I have encountered require the parents to be involved in any grade skip decisions. Did they just call or send you a letter saying your daughter was no longer in grade n, but is now in grade n+1?
Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss any of this off-board.
Best of luck,
–S.F.
I had 18 years of my daughter living at home and I would do anything for another year. If she is a good candidate and will love college at 16, she will be a better candidate and thrive even more with that extra year. College is a huge investment and a once in a lifetime opportunity. I’d make sure she is in the best position to thrive there.
I did an extra year of high school in Spain as an exchange student. I went with AFS I think it is something like $15,000 now. Have her do something like that–way too young to go to college. I think they offer scholarships as well.
My husband’s younger sister was very gifted academically and an outstanding ballet dancer. She went to college at 16. It was an utter disaster. She got in over her head and got involved with drugs. Although she went on to get her PhD, she has always struggled and is always on the verge of financial disaster. I would never send a kid that young to college.
Just the other day, after talking to her on the phone, DH shook his head and said, “My parents really made a mistake sending her off so young…”
It is more problematic these days, in my opinion. A fair number of classmates will have been held along the way and thus will be 19 upon entrance. While this student may be mature compared to 16 year olds, it is unlikely she is mature compared to those she will be in college class with and competing with for internships, etc. As a poster noted, neither professors nor employers will be aware of, or care about, her comparative youth. She is choosing to compete with an older cohort.
I am going to offer anecdotal evidence based on my experience. My kid went to a school for profoundly gifted children—so there were quite a few kids who faced these issues. All the kids at the school are ready to graduate at least a year early from HS. Those who chose to take this path did not have good results regarding admittances at “top” colleges (T15 and above). The kids were brilliant with near perfect test scores, multiple APs, etc.—but very one dimensional because they had not had time to develop the profile (i.e., rest of the holistic portfolio) needed for these schools. One set of parents sent several kids (advanced 2 years) to sports schools (to practice life skill sports) to “take a lap” and then reentered them in high school. These kids did well. Don’t think top colleges are going to value her just because she finished early and has perfect scores/grades. That’s a rookie college mistake.
@Skrunch and others, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I went to an Ivy (one of the HYP triad) and have been interviewing for that school for over 10 years. I thus know much about their admissions process, what is important to that school (and, somewhat by extension, others) and what the competition looks like. I also know that admission is not at all guaranteed. I have no intention of suggesting she just apply to these two. What I am trying to do with this thread is to hear others’ reactions about these two schools for a younger matriculant, as I have described her. I know there are other schools, that her taking a gap year or adding another year of education at a local school might be better in some respects, etc. I promise, I’m not naive.
@lookingforward, she was not promoted from 8th to 11th but from 3rd to 4th and then, without our consent, from 8th to 9th. She has been at her high school for much of her day in 8th, 9th, 10th, now 11th, and will be there next year for 12th. She is involved, as I mentioned in a previous post, in numerous extracurriculars (as well as acts as a tutor to many) and does things in the summer, like internships, working on our farm, etc. She is not at all a one-dimensional academic wonder. @saharafrog, what happened in 8th is that she was taking several of her core courses (foreign language, math, social studies, and science) at the high school. The school administration needed her test scores for state and federal funding and wanted to send her back to her middle school for many days over the month of April to take tests on the 8th grade core subject areas. This would have meant her missing many days of her three high school classes. We wrote an appeal to beg they release her from this requirement, since she was between schools. Several days after our appeal was sent, we saw on her school page she had been promoted to 9th grade. We were never asked, neither then or afterward, if this were acceptable. But over the years we had grown weary of the battles and just wanted not to have to deal with the administration again.
@gopies Not meaning to preach. But saw some very disappointed kids/parents. (And each kid did wonders where they landed and haven’t looked back—after a few weeks of misery). It made an impression. Best of luck to her.
@david5454, your personal experience is heartening. I also should say that I have two siblings living with their families nearby, in New Hampshire and Massachusetts, so if there were any issues they would be there to help. If she ever felt she wanted to come home, she could do that, too. Dartmouth’s 10-week quarters and multiple chances to take leave in sophomore and junior years, for whatever end, whether to work near home or not, gives me hope that she could be fine there, even with the fraternity culture. (We would recommend she stay away from their parties for a time, if she went to college there.) One year and then she could take a 10-week breather, if that were what she wanted. But I will still keep looking for affordable gap year experiences, so she can take a year to get ready.
It sounds like your public school did you no favor. I am sorry you are in this position, but surely as an HYP grad, you realize the the students at these schools are frankly interchangeable. Many kids will apply to all of them. The differences in their experiences likely will be individual to them and not necessarily reflective of any difference in colleges. I am very surprised you thought women’s schools were somehow more sheltered; they weren’t 35 years ago and they certainly are not now. I wouldn’t suggest any of these schools to someone seeking a sheltered experience. Or pretty much any US college.