Hello! I have a 15-year-old daughter who was (against my and my wife’s will) promoted two grades by her school district, one of the best and largest in our state. Now a junior in high school, she is very intense and advanced academically, regularly one of the best students in her classes, which are now almost all AP-level (some subjects have no AP-level offerings). Her primary extracurricular, the extracurricular that takes her out of her head, is riding horses, which she has been doing since she was a very young child. Outside of class, she is also studying Russian on her own and, though we have looked at NSLI-Y, its Russian year-long program sends students to Moldova. My wife is not keen on sending our daughter to Moldova for a year. My question is: socially, for an emotionally mature 16-year-old (who would be 17 in January of her first year at college), would there be much lost or gained in her going to Dartmouth or Williams, both of which have a large group of academically gifted students and equestrian teams? She is also willing to consider Smith (where she also could ride) but is really wanting to be in an academic situation in which her talents won’t stand out as they have for most of her life. (We also, I should say, are middle class and do not have the income for expensive gap year options or private schools.)
I thought Mt Holyoke had a large Equestrian Center and would seem the better choice than Smith. She could still take courses at Smith if needed.
Just to add Williams and Dartmouth are both need-based only finaid. Smith and Mt Holyoke have merit even though I think Smith’s tops out at either 25K or 30K. Mt Holyoke has a small number of full tuition scholarships.
I’d pick Williams because it is smaller. She might be very mature for a 16 year old, but she’s still going to be younger than the 21 and 22 year olds, and some 18 year old fellow freshmen might not be mature enough to accept her as a peer.
I’d say Smith, but we found Smith overwhelming when my daughter toured (and spent a weekend) at 16. She felt a lot of pressure to commit to a sexual identity on the spot (“are you gay or bi? do you identify as a he/she/ze?” just a lot of pressure). It was also a lot more political than my daughter was looking for.
Dartmouth very high fraternity and sorority participation, so if that is a consideration (either positive or negative), be sure to be aware of it.
My husband entered college at 16, at a time it was more common to do so. He would not permit his children to do so. While there are many who have successfully entered selective colleges at that age, he would say the personal cost and lost opportunities were too high. If the school system truly forces you out, I would do a PG year at boarding school for that student.
There’s much to be said for a smaller school, especially for a younger student. For grad school she could go to a large research university–she’ll be able to fend for herself better by then.
“My husband entered college at 16,… He would not permit his children to do so.”
I missed entering college at 16 by just over a week. I agree completely with @roycroftmom. I would not recommend this either. To me a gap year would be a better bet compared to starting university at 16.
The academics were not an issue at all. It was everything else.
I’m with @roycroftmom: give her the gift of time. It’s not just whether your daughter is mature- it’s also whether the older students accept her as being at the same level. If she is tired of standing out for being the star, she may not love being in the pod of ‘kids’.
What about a full on gap year, where she does horses all the way full time? Working for a year would give her the chance to do some growing in several dimensions. It would also open up more universities for her - for example, I believe that both Brown and Cornell have strong equestrian teams, and they are both meet-need schools. They are very different- and different again from Dartmouth & Williams. Choosing one of those two (both of which have very different, very strong campus cultures) solely b/c they have some young students & an equestrian program seems unnecessarily limiting.
Perhaps a good gap year activity would be a job at a horse ranch/stables.
If possible, after she gets admitted to college, take a gap year. So young, it will be hard socially, IMO.
If you google “hoagies gifted early college” you will hit the part of the Hoagies website that lists programs designed for early college entry. These are for students who skip out of HS entirely at ages similar to your daughter’s and younger. The colleges and universities with those programs would be worth investigating because she would have a peer/near-peer group to socialize with.
She should look at Bryn Mawr for the Russian. Back in the stone age when I was a freshman there, I had a number of 16 year old freshman classmates.
What about a gap year with AFS.org or YFU.org? Surely one of them has a semester or year exchange to Russia.
And of course, Dartmouth vs, Williams is too soon right now. Wait until she has actually applied and been accepted by both.
I lived overseas for much of my life and when I came back to the US I was given the option to skip a grade but my parents decided not too, much to my chagrin. I have, however, come to appreciate their foresight, that I’m sure you had as well as you didn’t want her to skip a grade. I feel somewhat the same as your daughter as, somewhat like her age, I have lived throughout the world for much of my life and struggle to understand others. I am mostly known for my intelligence (as the top student at a fairly large school) and other traits that I might have are looked over. This can certainly be difficult as you daughter is experiencing, people often see your intelligence and nothing else. I now very much appreciate the extra year that I have had in order to learn to relate to others that are different from me and believe I am in a much better position to go to college (coincidentally at Williams '22) now than I would have a year ago.
Cross country has been my way of relating to others outside of my intelligence and I would encourage your daughter to get to know more people (if she hasn’t already) through her riding and invest in those relationships. I would most definitely urge you to make sure she is socially able to relate to, and feel comfortable with people older than her before she goes to college.
Obviously I am a bit biased but I think Williams would be a great option as it is a small college where she will be less overwhelmed by so many people, let alone Sorority and Fraternity cultures. The entry system would also be very beneficial in giving her a group of people to know around campus right away.
Agree with many of the above comments re gap years & such, but, if I have to vote, I would say Williams and not Dartmouth. As much as I love the College, I would not toss a younger-than-her-peers woman into that mix.
We’re not looking at Dartmouth and Williams just because of riding and the presence of academically advanced students. There are a range of other factors: the local and campus environment, the curricular structure (e.g., Dartmouth’s D-plan and the distribution requirements), opportunities for connection with faculty, research, etc. I appreciate the recommendations, however.
Granted, happymomof1, we can’t be sure that she’d be admitted to Dartmouth or Williams (or any number of places). I was simply using them as places where she would possibly be most academically comfortable (and with extracurricular activities suited to her). From what I see, afs.org would cost $13-15K for a year in Russia, more than we can afford without taking a chunk of money out of her college fund. To Glorfindel1, I’d like to say that she is connecting quite well to her 17-18-year-old classmates. Indeed, she’s very popular at her high school (which is one of the reasons why she is loath to go somewhere else for her senior year). She’s very gregarious and emotionally nimble, making friends with numerous kinds of students at her high school. We had considered sending her to a prestigious science and math magnet school in our state so she could repeat her junior year but the school has a reputation for a repressive, stressed-out culture and she refused to go. We’re not sure sending her abroad at 16 would be great either. Having been abroad myself as a junior in college, it can feel extremely isolating and very lonely. Not being able to communicate with people well is hard to handle. Finding good friends is also made more difficult by the language barrier. If we could find an appropriate work situation, we would, but there’s social isolation involved in that as well. She’d be working with people on average much older than herself. How would we tell her not to go out socially with her 25-year-old friends met through work? We couldn’t just keep her in her room by herself all year. Sending her to a horse ranch would not be a viable solution, not for a 16-year-old girl. But thanks to everyone for the thoughts. It’s a hard nut to crack…
I like the idea of being a working student with a good trainer for the year and focusing on qualifying for indoors as she’s still young enough to ride as a junior. That opportunity will not come around again. And intercollegiate riding, fun as it is, can’t begin to compare with the big time circuit.
There are plenty of other good schools with equestrian programs including Duke and Stanford.
I am not entirely sure small is better for a young student, btw. If she doesn’t “fit” socially because of her age, it can feel really alienating. At a bigger school, she can do what she likes but everyone is moving through and in different circles, so it might feel more comfortable.
Part of this is what attracts her to one college over another or one sort of school over others.
But the other part is what makes your child attractive to those colleges. Take time to look into that. Missing 2 years, she may be academically competitive in her hs, but she’s missed 2 years of formative classes, peer interaction, and that great leveller, extracurriculars. Riding and self study are likely not enough for colleges looking to build a community, not just offer academic opportunities.
Make sure she has the right balance and maturity and that that shows.
So you don’t think a horse ranch is a good place for a 16 year old girl, but college is?
Your daughter at 16 is hanging out with the oldest kids in her high school classes, and they are 1-2 years older. In college, one fourth of the school will be 6 years older than her. They will be her peers. That’s a big difference.
Have you looked at Rotary programs? They usually involve a home stay.
Gardenstategal, she’d like to ride but not just ride. Furthermore, the social question still remains—with whom would she fraternize? Just the other riders? And she couldn’t ride all day, every day. We don’t like the idea of her going to the mediocre college down the road, where she’d be bored, working a job, and riding when she could. She doesn’t want to be a part of the big circuit. (She also doesn’t have her own horse.) Duke and Stanford have basically clubs, like a number of schools do, which aren’t subsidized, so we would have to foot the bill. Williams and Dartmouth do subsidize, or pay for, the teams. We thought a girl’s school, like Smith, might be more protected. Being at a bigger school would have advantages in some ways but it could also be a place where she’d get lost and feel lonely. I went to a bigger school, and my wife and I are professors at a bigger (state) school. The students are often isolated, those that are not in the social clubs. But, yes, I understand, smaller has its own problems. No perfect solution. Sigh…
What about doing research for a year at a local hospital, or university you work at?