<p>Hi guys,
Well, now I am admitted into Washington University in St.Louis and UNC. But I definitely cannot decide which one I should go to. Can you give me some advice?
I’m a Math major, but I have heard that Wash U is good at medicine and relatively not that good in Math.
Please help me.</p>
<p>I think the two programs are comparable. Barring significant geographic (midwest vs. south) or size (small-mid vs. largish), I would go to whichever one is cheaper and pocket the difference.</p>
<p>Are you in-state for UNC?</p>
<p>Well, I’m an international student and do not live in Carolina.</p>
<p>I would go with UNC, but WUSTL is just as good. I just prefer Chapel Hill (one of America’s quaintest and funnest college towns) to St Louis (arguably America’s most dangerous city).</p>
<p>I don’t know anyone going to WUSTL for math so go to UNC.
But if you want prestige then go to WUSTL.</p>
<p>Congratulations. WUSTL is one of the most selective schools in the USA; UNC is considered one of the best public universities.</p>
<p>You can compare the NRC rankings of their doctoral programs in mathematics for a general indication of relative faculty strength. I’m not sure this is going to be too helpful, though, to distinguish the two schools’ undergraduate math programs.
[NRC</a> Rankings Overview: Mathematics - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124743/]NRC”>http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124743/)</p>
<p>I don’t think WUSTL is in a particularly dangerous part of St. Louis, so that might not be a good distinguisher either.</p>
<p>WUSTL is a national university. It draws students from all over the USA. UNC is a state university so a large majority of undergraduates will come from NC. WUSTL also offers much smaller class sizes. About 70% of WUSTL classes have <20 students. At UNC, the percentage is less than half. Once you get past the first two years, I would expect your math classes to be small at either school, but you’ll presumably be taking lots of non-math courses over the 4 years.
(<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/708190-avg-class-size-4.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/708190-avg-class-size-4.html</a>)</p>
<p>Averby, WUSTL is certainly prestigious, but no more so than UNC. Neither is considered as prestigious as Harvard or MIT but both have excellent reputations.</p>
<p>Furthermore, UNC class sizes are small too, but as a public university, it does not have the luxury of manipulating data like private universities do. It is a myth that classes at public universities are significantly larger than at private universities. They may be slightly larger, but not to the point where it makes a difference. </p>
<p>There are very few parts of St Louis that are pleasant. Yes, roughly half the crime takes place in the northern parts of St Louis, but most of the city is not student-friendly. When I visited a friend in St Louis, she commented on how the city had close to a million residents in the 1950s and that since the 1960s, the population has declined to roughly a third of a million. Anytime a city’s population declines by over 50%, there is cause for concern. I would say that St Louis is one of the least pleasant cities I have visited, and that includes Detroit. Chapel Hill on the other hand is a very pleasant, fun and student-friendly town.</p>
<p>Another factor to consider is cost. I know the OP said that cost was not a major factor, but there is a significant difference in cost of attendance. Attending WUSTL is roughly $20,000 more expensive than UNC. That’s $80,000 over four years.</p>
<p>If the OP were majoring in Biology or premed, I would have a harder time recommending UNC over WUSTL. But for virtually any other major, I would recommend UNC.</p>
<p>I’ve known more than one who discovered that the math they liked in HS actually was a lot closer to applied math used in Engg rather than what they experienced as a math major. So I’d recommend looking at the schools’ Engg programs also in case this applies to you.</p>
<p>I’ve lived in St. Louis. I think the city has a lot of spirit, and the Forest Park / Clayton neighborhood is nice. Unless you come from a very small/sheltered town, I can’t imagine that you’d feel especially unsafe in the immediate area.</p>
<p>Still, I can’t deny that the RTP area is more of a growth center than STL.</p>
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<p>The public data I’ve seen suggests otherwise to me. However, at UNC (or Michigan) v. WUSTL in particular, especially in specific majors, it may not be a big issue. </p>
<p>According to the UNC Common Data Set, 158 classes (out of 3,107) have 100+ students.
Another 158 have 50-99 students. 476 have 30-49. So about 25% are what I’d consider “big” for purposes of discussion and instructor feedback. These won’t be distributed evenly across all majors and levels.</p>
<p>Unfortunately I cannot find a CDS document for WUSTL. You could check out the CDS distribution numbers for some schools close to WUSTL in the list I cited. At Princeton, for example, about 18% of classes have 30 or more students.</p>
<p>In any case, the cost difference is indeed substantial. If there’s a class size advantage to WUSTL, that alone may not be worth the extra cost to you.</p>
<p>Alexandre, with all due respect, I don’t think you’re familiar with the area at all.</p>
<p>WUSTL is in a very lovely area of St. Louis – bordered by a park, the pleasant Clayton metro area with upscale dining, shopping, businesses, Ritz-Carlton, etc. – and multi-million dollar homes, often older and quite charming. It’s very safe and quasi-suburban in its overall feel.</p>
<p>The actual city of St. Louis has rough areas – as does any major city – but they are pretty much irrelevant to the WUSTL experience (just as, say, South Boston is irrelevant to someone deciding to go to Harvard or MIT). </p>
<p>I think this is a choice between an excellent smaller school and an excellent bigger school, and one’s personal preferences for small / big come into play.</p>
<p>I agree the city of St. Louis is not super-exciting for young people, but it’s not because of safety concerns – it’s just a city that doesn’t have much of a downtown. To some extent, Clayton serves as the downtown.</p>
<p>
Don’t be swayed by Alexandre’s hyperbole; the neighborhoods immediately surrounding WUSTL are safe and affluent, with very large mansions and tree-lined boulevards. As to the larger city, Pizzagirl is spot on (I assume this is because she has lived in STL/MO at some point?) Like any large metropolitan area, St. Louis has a few rough spots, but it does offer a variety of safe, upscale dining, shopping areas, museums and student-friendly urban parks etc. </p>
<p>Your choice should come down to measures of personal fit. However, in my opinion, WUSTL’s national drawing power, smaller class sizes, and prestige give it a slight edge.</p>
<p>Congrats!</p>
<p>I think WUSTL is more prestigious than UNC, personally. People know WUSTL as a top national school. I’m a personal fan of UNC and considered going there myself, but once you move away from the east coast, most people are going to just think “oh, the state university for North Carolina” and not think of it as anything special. If my kids were making that decision, I’d come down in favor of WUSTL.</p>
<p>I’m sure that both schools are wonderful. UNC certainly doesn’t take a back seat to WUStl in terms of prestige. UNC is top tier all the way, one of our country’s great state universities.</p>
<p>The area surrounding WashU is not dangerous, it is not ugly. Some of the nearby residential areas are extremely wealthy, and I don’t mean people who make a couple hundred grand a year. The park across the street is Forest Park, one of the largest urban parks in the U.S. It includes a zoo, an art museum, a theater, an ice-skating rink, restaurants, running/walking and biking trails, picnic areas, fountains…Not far away is Central West End, with no shortage of restaurants and a fantastic chess club.</p>
<p>Not far away (by car) is the Missouri Botanical Gardens, one of the best botanical gardens in the U.S. I don’t think it is a big draw for the college crowd, though!</p>
<p>Having said that, St. Louis has its problems, and the crime in some parts of the city is bad. The neighborhoods I grew up in are long gone. Other neighborhoods are still in good shape. The downtown is not an attraction, but it should be, given that it sits next to a major river. There is a new initiative to make some major changes, but it won’t happen for a while. None of that should be a huge factor when deciding whether or not to attend WashU. The one caution, I think, is to find out how the undergraduate housing situation is doing now. At one point, there was a shortage of on-campus housing, and some students did not think the local options were good.</p>
<p>Public transportation has never been St. Louis’ strong suit, but there is a monorail to the airport and a few other places.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your advice! </p>
<p>As I have said, I am an international student (actually a Chinese). So a major problem that concerns me is that, which school’s students are more willing to make friends with me, a Chinese? Most students in UNC come from Carolina while students from all over the U.S.A. attend Wash U. Therefore, there is a very big difference in the student body.</p>
<p>Besides, I have suffered a lot from the cut-throat competitive atmosphere here in China. A nice and collaborative student body is of course very appealing for me.</p>
<p>As a WashU alumnus, I just wanna let you know that WashU’s location is very safe. But again, it is in USA where guns are legal. So, anything can happen. But I’m very sure that you’re smart enough (cos you got into WashU and UNC) not to go to sketchy places at night all by yourself. =)
I myself am also an international student from Asia and I can assure you that WashU has a diverse student body. Our Chinese Student Association is one of the biggest Asian clubs here at WashU. So, you shouldn’t have problem meeting another chinese people. I’m not saying that it’s best to stick with your fellow chinese nationals…But they’re the people who have been in your position before and they know how to help you. As for the AMERICANS…WashU is well known for having friendly student body. This is because it has always been ranked first/second for having the best dorm/campus facilites. So, when the students’ needs are fulfilled, they would be very happy and thus more helpful. hahaha…I know it’s hard to believe. But I was kinda surprised by the hospitality too when I first stepped my foot on the campus. I was actually greeted by some Americans who walked past my taxi right after I unloaded my luggages from the trunks. So yeah… You wouldn’t have any problem making friends with the locals. :D</p>
<p>My son is a WashU freshman (from NJ), and has told me that there is a relatively large Asian population at WashU, split between Asian-Americans and internationals.</p>
<p>UNC is a great school. And if you were an instate NC student who would get instate tuition, it would be a great option.</p>
<p>But for an international student, I would recommend WashU. UNC has a very high percentage of instate students (80%), as it is really difficult to get accepted from out-of-state. WashU on the other hand is only 10% instate, although that is probably a bit lower than the true feel as Chicago-area students are out-of-state, but nearby. Still, WashU clearly has much more US-wide geographic diversity, and probably international diversity as well, although I don’t have statistics for that.</p>
<p>6% of WUSTL are international, compared to 2% of UNC students. Since UNC is three times larger than WUSTL, in terms of absolute numbers, both have roughly the same number of international students (350 or so). </p>
<p>I do not see why an international student should care whether 80% or 20% of the students are residents of the state. UNC students tend to be as friendly, welcoming and approachable as they come. </p>
<p>In terms of the racial makeup of the student bodies, both are primarily white (70% at WUSTL and 75% at UNC). 14% of WUSTL are Asian American, compared to 7% at UNC while 10% are African American at both schools. </p>
<p>I would visit both schools before making such a major decision.</p>