<p>HH the last acceptable prejudice in this country is against anyone who is remotely religious, especially Evangelicals or Catholics. </p>
<p>Secularism rules.</p>
<p>And that’s it in a nutshell sj!</p>
<p>Have a good day, all. :)</p>
<p>hh, Is that all I’ll get for an answer? :(</p>
<p>“sunlight kills some nasty germs. Nature’s antiseptic as it were.”</p>
<p>This seems to be an odd analogy. I hope I’m reading it wrong, because it seems to compare people’s religious belief or culture to germs that need to be sanitized or wiped clean.</p>
<p>I have a real problem with religious fundamentalism, but this seems to be an inappropriate comment even to me.</p>
<p>I would be very offended if it were said about my family’s culture or religion. </p>
<p>Hopefully, this is sentiment not common to this message board.</p>
<p>Hmm… I wonder what curmugeon’s religion was before he started thinking for himself. Fairly certain he was not Catholic.</p>
<p>HH (although you may not believe me;)), I completely believe that religious people have the rights to their own beliefs. If the fundies want to homeschool their ten children, with the girls all in bonnets and long gowns, that is their right, and I am actually rather impressed with their ability to do so. Their religious beliefs, as they pertain to individual choice, their own personal responsibility, etc. are completely within their domain. </p>
<p>The “paranoid irrationality”, of which you speak, comes from those who see creeping of religious fundamentalism into our own secular society. I don’t care about what happens in churches, but we don’t want church beliefs brought into the public arena. Religion should not be part of public policy (though it is, through funding,e tc.)</p>
<p>That is all that most of us ask, or, speaking for myself, all that I ask.</p>
<p>I’m ELCA Lutheran and in our church Christmas catalog of charitible gifts are options to give towards a Christian housing project in Israel for Palestinian Christians and medical care and educational projects for Christian and Muslim Palestinians. There are wide variations between Christians, and I wouldn’t go so far as to lump all “evangelicals” together either. In reading some of the exit polling from the election, it was clear that significant numbers of people who label themselves “born-again” voted Democratic. What some talking heads espouse is not necessarily representative of all.</p>
<p>I guess when I pass, I will be some in some great company!!</p>
<p>I don’t care about a person religious beliefs- it is taking that faith and trying to insert it into public policy- medicine, schools, science, books- I mean to ban Harry Potter? COME ON!!! </p>
<p>I know that many people that say- there is a war against religion, know that is not true, but it sounds good and they want it to work as a rallying call</p>
<p>Does anyone see raids on churches, boycotting religious people’s businesses, anything like that?</p>
<p>I dont, but I do see people using their religion to “justify” hatred, bigotry, bad science, bad medicine…</p>
<p>I can tell the difference between not wanting a particular religion to dictate public policy and a war of religious people…its like playing the religion card</p>
<p>Faith over logic, reason, education, fairness, law, equality…sound familiar</p>
<p>cgm - This "war’ you speak of is a little more subtle than that - though not much! It is an undeclared war, if you like, just like the war on the middle class.</p>
<p>I, for one, have a little trouble when people of any faith/religion (I realize this may not mean you want to separate it from their “real” lives, ie - secular lives. </p>
<p>In case anyone needs reminding, religion is also, if not primarily, a set of rules and guidelines for living out the here and now, not just a way to ‘get to heaven’ in the next life, with total disregard for how one’s day to day actions affect others.</p>
<p>“Some people seem to be opposed to allowing born-agains (fundies, evangelicals, whatever) their right to their own beliefs.”</p>
<p>Who are the people denying born-agains the right to their beliefs? What liberals – even the furthest left-fringe crazies – have tried to force them to believe otherwise or punished them for holding those views?</p>
<p>If they share their views in the public arena, everyone else has a right to vocally disagree, and even the right to engage in silly name-calling, which unfortunately many do. That’s not a denial of the born-agains’ right to their beliefs.</p>
<p>“As long as Christian Fundamentalists aren’t taking airliners into skyscrapers, they can think whatever they want, imo.”</p>
<p>Or take down government buildings.</p>
<p>I think my mother got my birth right the first time. I’m sure there are others who might feel differently. ;)</p>
<p>Stay the course.</p>
<p>“As long as Christian Fundamentalists aren’t taking airliners into skyscrapers, they can think whatever they want, imo.”</p>
<p>Of course they can think whatever they want. But taking airliners into skyscrapers isn’t the only way to violate the freedom of others. If you’re trying to outlaw the sex I have in my loving adult relationship, that’s a violation of my freedom. If you’re trying to teach Christian religious lessons in public school, that’s a violation of my freedom. (Not all Christian Fundamentalists try to do these things, and it’s completely wrong and unfair to suggest that they do – just as tarring all orthodox Muslims with the same brush is wrong.)</p>
<p>Put another way, the fact that there are rapists and murderers in the world doesn’t mean that we should ignore the trouble caused by shoplifters and pickpockets. It’s a million times worse to kill people than it is to deny them the right to buy birth control. But I still can (and should) complain about that second violation of my freedom when it happens.</p>
<p><what liberals–even=“” the=“” furthest=“” left-fringe=“” crazies–have=“” tried=“” to=“” force=“” them=“” believe=“” otherwise=“” or=“” punished=“” for=“” holding=“” these=“” views?=“”></what></p>
<p>Um, maybe you weren’t around when I put forth my view that gay-marriage should not be made legal (which is a belief I hold which is partially informed by my religion). I was, in fact, called many ugly names for holding this belief.</p>
<p>Yes, these people were trying to “force me to believe otherwise” through name-calling, mockery and intimidation.</p>
<p>“Neutral” and “secular” commentators on here regularly feel free to deconstruct and mock the Bible, as well as to do the same about specific Christian groups such as Catholics and evangelical groups (I have not seen it directed towards Jews or Muslims or liberal Christian sects). Frankly, people are “punished” quite a bit on this forum for having the nerve to express views which are based on their religious beliefs. Mockery is, in fact, the most powerful force against religion, imo.</p>
<p>I have yet to see anyone on this board mock the views of atheists, agnostics or humanists. I have only seen people defending their religious views against attacks.</p>
<p>As someone mentioned, the vitriol expressed against certain religious views by some posters (despite their occasional denials) has gone far beyond mere polite disagreement. In fact, the only reason I choose to remain on this board at all is to defend against such mockery.</p>
<p>
But hh, that’s the liberal way. If you don’t agree with the left, you must be “stupid”, right? There can’t possibly be any other reason.</p>
<p>mini, I’m not aware of any legitimate Christian sect which encouraged or condoned Timothy McVeigh. My understanding is that he was a neo-nazi.</p>
<p>And Hanna, who’s trying to outlaw sex in the privacy of your home?</p>
<p>religious views as pubic policy is bad</p>
<p>and lets take a look at sodomy laws, shall we? </p>
<p>I coul care less about evangelicals UNTIL they try to push teaching ID in schools, UNTIL they try and have the bible taught as religion in public schools, UNTIL they want to cut funding for condoms in third world countries</p>
<p>CGM: The time has come to put up or shut up. Other than the one case I am aware of in PA, where else have “they” tried to push ID into schools?</p>
<p>In addition, it’s time to give us specific cases where “they” are trying to teach the Bible as religion in schools. (Real cases, not agenda-driven sites like religioustolerance.org.)</p>
<p>I’m sure you have the time to give us the specific places they are doing this. I keep pretty abreast of education issues, and I have not read about any of these cases. I have read, however, about Christians bringing lawsuits where the secular teachings in the schools contradict their religious beliefs, most notably sex education. In fact, it was my understanding that the reason Christians have been homeschooling in vast numbers in recent years is because the public schools are not in any way accommodating to their beliefs. That is, in fact, why I withdrew my younger son from our public high school.</p>
<p>Bring it on, cgm.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/11/08/evolution.debate.ap/[/url]”>http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/11/08/evolution.debate.ap/</a>
test cases in PA, KS and Ohio- but because of diligence, they failed…</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.bibleinschools.net/sdm.asp[/url]”>http://www.bibleinschools.net/sdm.asp</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm[/url]”>http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm</a> (thank god for the supreme court
on this one)</p>
<p>there is more, but you seem to ignore facts for dogma</p>
<p>whatever</p>
<p>“religious” people have tried and are trying all over the country to push their religion into public policy, and because people have been watchful, ID, an interesting phrase, btw, failed </p>
<p>bring it on? you are the one trying to wage a war, not me</p>
<p>yeah, and like, abstinance education is a big success…</p>
<p>Religion is for home, family and church, and life choices, not for public schools, workplace…nor is it for science, medicine</p>
<p>tell me, do you believe in banning books?</p>
<p>“Yes, these people were trying to “force me to believe otherwise” through name-calling, mockery and intimidation.”</p>
<p>What in the world?</p>
<p>The Parent Cafe is not a workplace or a school. It’s a social setting, albeit a virtual one (and a moderated one at that; I doubt that any poster committing genuine “intimidation” or harassment would be around very long). If you feel people are being rude and disrespectful to you, don’t talk to those people. If I go hang out at guns-n-ammo.com and the people there subject me to ridicule for stating my beliefs, that’s not intimidation, and they aren’t forcing me to do anything.</p>
<p>Let’s carry your suggestion to its logical conclusion. You say:</p>
<p>““Neutral” and “secular” commentators on here regularly feel free to deconstruct and mock the Bible”</p>
<p>The nerve! You’re telling me that people FEEL FREE to say whatever is on their minds, as long as it conforms to the board’s Terms of Service?? That’s an outrage. Clearly, the rule ought to be that if one poster holds a document in high esteem, then no one else here gets to express a negative opinion about it. I hereby declare that henceforth, no one on the board can deconstruct Roe v. Wade or make sarcastic comments about it. Otherwise, they are forcing me to accept their beliefs.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>See Lawrence v. Texas and the many amicus briefs defending the Texas sodomy law. See also the angry outcry when the Supreme Court said these laws don’t pass Constitutional muster any more.</p>
<p>Thank you:</p>
<p>The Bible is NOT presently being taught as religion in the public schools in the United States of America.</p>
<p>Gays are NOT presently prohibited by law from expressing their sexuality in the United States of America.</p>
<p>Intelligent Design is NOT presently being taught in any public schools in the United States of America.</p>
<p>Indeed, I might conclude from the above that the much-touted “fundamentalist takeover” of our government has a long way to go before it succeeds.</p>
<p>If you don’t want to hear a defense of our religion, dear ladies–don’t attack it.</p>
<p>I doubt the Terms of Service would allow racist or ethnic bigotry, yet for some reason the Terms of Service allow for religious bigotry to be expressed freely and openly on this board. Mocking and ridiculing the Bible is ipso facto mocking and ridiculing the beliefs of millions of people. Roe v. Wade and the issue of gun control are not religious beliefs, as far as I know.</p>
<p>As someone said, religious bigotry is the last remaining acceptable prejudice.</p>
<p>Live and let live: believe what you want to and let others continue to cherish their personal religious beliefs.</p>