<p>SS, at my son’s Catholic HS, they have an active Jewish Students Union. They also celebrate a seder, and invite all members of the community to join them.</p>
<p>I think among the Jewish people there is an emphasis on the religion and the practices of it. Among many Christians the religion gets mixed up with holiday traditions.A Christmas Tree is only a tradition. It was invented at a party to celebrate Christ’s birth. It has no more significance than a dreidel. Among Christians by accepting Jesus Christ as the son of God your faith has been satistied. All you have to do is admit this and your obligation as a Christian is satisfied. You can take up the philosophy of any particular sect, Catholic, Presbyterian, Baptist but it all comes down to the same thing. If you cannot admit the Christ is the son of God , you are not a Christian. You don’t have to participate in organized religion to be a Christian. Of course, the churches would like you to join them and help with their missions, adopt their particular interpretation of faith, but you don’t have to do that and still be a Christian.</p>
<p>Berurah: Geesh, you should write a book!</p>
<p>Sorry somehow forgot this.</p>
<p>My question is, is it the same way for Jewish folk? Can they simply say they believe in God and are still waiting for the Messiah and be a Jew. Does this essentially define their faith? Can you be a non practicing Jew like you can be a non practicing Christian? I mean, you adopt the premise of the faith but do not worship regularly with others. </p>
<p>Just wondering.</p>
<p>I mean, a person can say they are a Catholic or a Presbyterian or an Evangelical as they are adopting the philosophy of this particular sect. I don’t particularly think one sect or another carries more weight with President Bush. I think he is polite and is aware that these sects encourage their congregation to vote a particular way so he will listen and consider everything these leaders have to say. Perhaps they might influence him if their support may win him an election.But I think he would more listen to them as to gage the tone of what is important to this large body of Americans and then move to a moderqate stance. After all, he doesn’t want to offend another large sect.</p>
<p>what is interesting about the Last Super/Passover Seder, is that 3 of the gospels defineately call that meal a Passover Seder, while the fourth, written much later, asserts a different day. That gospel was written when Christianisty was having more “influence”- some think it was perhaps a way of distancing Jesus from Jewish traditions, though Jesus was a Jew.</p>
<p>Again, one of those times when the book, the final word to so many, contradicts itself to suit the needs of the times</p>
<p>Of course you can be a non-practicing Jew. Many Jews feel a strong cultural connection more than religious. Even secular Jews, who don’t regularly go to synagogue, keep kosher, etc. still completely identify themselves as Jewish.</p>
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O.K., toblin. You obviously paid more attention in religion class than I did. What’s the answer?</p>
<p>golani: I appreciate your passion and believe that an Israli citizen knows better than most how important it is to hold onto your faith & pass on the legacy & traditions. I do, however, really encourage you to take a comparitive religions course. Understanding the foundations of other faiths is valuable. That doesn’t mean embracing them or adopting them. Just understanding & respecting them. (Or not. You may find some very odious ideas in other faiths, but at least you will be correctly informed.) After all, if we don’t feel our faith is the true faith with important distinctions from others, we might as well all become Unitarians.</p>
<p>cgm: Could you clarify for me why there are three separate Humanist Manifestos? Humanist Manifesto I in 1933, Humanist Manifesto II in 1973 and Humanist Manifesto III in 2003?</p>
<p>Interesting thread, this. Here’s my situation: we’re Moravian but since we don’t have any Moravian schools in NYC, my older daughter went to a Lutheran grade school and a Catholic high school. The religion teachers in her high school have been relentless in telling her that she is going to hell. She is deeply religious and has considered the ministry, although I don’t think that’s where she will end up. My younger daughter was raised Moravian and attended a Catholic grade school. Last year the bishop came to visit the graduating class and gave a speech about how non-Catholics have no hope of going to heaven. She had received a full scholarship to older daughter’s expensive Catholic school, but decided after that speech that she needed to go to an inclusive public school. She LOVES it and I swear she is on the path to satanism (I’m kidding). Anyway, our denomination is pacifist and ultra-liberal. We do great things in the service of humanity and don’t attempt to convert anyone. we are not born again. We also have married pastors, women pastors, gay pastors and bishops of all stripes.</p>
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<p>These statements are in direct conflict with Catholic teachings. I can’t believe a bishop would EVER say such a thing. Nor a religion teacher. I suspect misunderstanding on your d’s part, or your part.</p>
<p>I live in PA too and I wonder if you’ve had corroboration on these stories? I have never heard any preaching on the subject of hell in our parish or any other parish I’ve been a part of in other states. It is not something the Catholic hierarchy seem to take much of an interest in lately. Not only that, but my son recently told me that his religion teacher told him that even Hitler has a chance of going to heaven (after purgatory, I suppose) if he repented before he died. Gosh, if Hitler can get into heaven, I sure don’t think any teachers in his school would tell non-Catholic children they’re going to hell, nor would a Bishop. It also doesn’t make sense to me that they would accept non-Catholics if that were the case. It also doesn’t jive with the ecumenical atmosphere at sjmom’s and stickershock’s Catholic high schools, based on stories they’ve told. With all due respect, I just find those stories rather hard to believe.</p>
<p>No Sticker Shock. We did not misunderstand. I had meetings in both schools. The bishop was very, very sorry and unbelievably kind. The religion teachers were not. Please don’t dispute my personal experience. I would not presume to discuss Catholic doctrine, but I can tell you what has happened to my children. In both instances, my non-Catholic children were welcomed into Catholic schools and loved and nurtured to great success. I posted those incidents because they are anomalous. We all know that there are imperfect people in every religious denomination and I think these are examples of that.</p>
<p>I have to concur with StickerShock. What Zoosermom is describing is absolutely NOT the doctrine of the Catholic Church. My kids have only attended Catholic schools from K - 12, and we’ve always had members of other faiths in their classes. There have been some discussions about whether students of different faiths may receive communion. The belief that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ is central to Catholicism, and is generally reserved for Catholics – I believe that Lutherans and Episcopals/Anglicans are allowed to receive Communion (similar belief in transubstantiation) but I’m not positive.</p>
<p>My sons have attended an all-male Catholic HS, and the Campus Ministry expends great energy at being inclusive and ecumenical. We’ve had Rabbi’s, Greek Orthodox Priests and a variety of other clergy participate in religious celebrations.</p>
<p>Hereshoping you can believe or not believe anything you want. I do resent the implication that I’m a liar, though. Thanks. The teachers (2) in question were lay teachers and I spoke to both myself, so I can verify the accounts. Neither was comfortable with non–Catholics in the school, although that was not the policy. There are Protestant, Muslim and athiest students in the school. As far as the bishop is concerned, I believe he misspoke, although it was said. The teacher called me to tell me what happened at the bishop’s insistence because was so apologetic. We then spoke and he told me that what he meant was that people who accept Jesus go to heaven, but it came out as something along the lines of “only Catholics go to heaven.” It was an off-the-cuff remark with a bunch of 8th graders. I’d be a dithering idiot if I had to speak to a bunch of them, too, so no hard feelings to the bishop, but it DID happen.</p>
<p>I’m not clear: Did the Bishop clarify that the religion teachers were wrong when he said he was sorry?</p>
<p>Here is a link from a Catholic dictionary <a href=“http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/ncd05582.htm[/url]”>http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/ncd05582.htm</a>
I don’t mean to dispute your experience ZM, but it is just not in keeping with the current doctrine of the Catholic Church. I’m sorry this happened to you and your children.</p>
<p>Well your explanation is different from your implication in your original post about the matter, zoosermom, isn’t it? Again, human beings are fallible. I have horror stories by the jillions about my kids in public schools. :)</p>
<p>P.s. I did not imply in any way you were a liar. I asked if you had corroboration. Frankly, from personal experience with my own kids, they sometimes have a way of exaggerating to achieve their own goals. :)</p>
<p>“I don’t mean to dispute your experience ZM, but it is just not in keeping with the current doctrine of the Catholic Church. I’m sorry this happened to you and your children.”</p>
<p>Of course it’s not in keeping with the doctrine. That was the point!!!</p>
<p>“I’m not clear: Did the Bishop clarify that the religion teachers were wrong when he said he was sorry?”</p>
<p>Ah thus the confusion. Two different schools separated over a period of years.</p>
<p>Well, then, I must be missing your point. I thought you were suggesting that the Catholic Church taught that non-Catholics go straight to hell. I was trying to tell that that’s not true, and to apologize that you were treated badly by members of my faith. I’ll keep any further thoughts to myself.</p>