This article looks at the college outcomes of low income students graduating from high schools in affluent sububs. It raises many good points but the prime example they chose to look at was a mistake. She was from a low income family in Massachusetts. She chose to attend Penn State and was forced to drop out during her sophomore year for financial reasons.
UMass Amherst would have likely been a better and more affordable option and not very different academically.
As CCer’s know Penn State is the most expensive sticker price public university in the country and they are known for very limited financial aid, even for in-state students. If her high school guidance counselor had warned her away from attending her dream school (Penn State) that would have led to problems for the GC.
really don’t see it being a low income problem. There are many middle class students that can’t afford living away at Penn State or Rutgers or UDel or Ohio State etc…
It’s a matter of COMMON SENSE, if you can’t afford it, don’t attend.
Students and parents alike need to have a reality check on college. Living away is not an entitlement, its a privilege. Select an affordable college, even if it means living at home and commuting.
The article does not go into what this student’s other options were when she was making her decision of where to attend. But I cannot imagine that Penn State would ever be the lowest bottom line cost for an OOS students.
Why would the counselor telling a student to “check the net price calculators of the colleges on your application list before applying” and that “it is a bad idea to attend a college that requires cosigned or parent loans” lead to problems for the counselor?
GCs at public schools, especially at public schools in affluent districts, aren’t conditioned, or trained, or even informed, to look after the affordability aspect of college applications. It’s simply not part of their job descriptions. Even if it were, they don’t have the time and other resources to take on that aspect of that job.
@ucbalumnus GC’s do not want to be the ones to “destroy the dreams” of high school seniors…and their parents. So the 3.2 GPA 1200 SAT student with no hook will not likely be told that HYPSM are out of reach. The parents who “will find a way to pay for it” will not get their bubble burst. We have seen many such students and parents here on CC. Add to that the low income discrimination factor that such honest information would trigger. Many of this student’s more affluent peers at Newton North High School were going to their dream school even though their families were being stretched financially but won’t admit it.
I commented on the Globe that I believe peer pressure plays a role in the high performing public schools. It is hard to tell people at the lunch table that you are going to community college, when even UMass Amherst brings sneers. I’m serious: some of these schools are like this and I know other families who have experienced financial stress trying to avoid the shame of community college.
Community college is a great way to start for many of our kids, and in our state you get preferential registration and other perks when you continue at UMass.
The majority of college students are actually NOT traditional students so the 6 year mark leaves out a lot of (eventual) success. Many college students are working or have kids and take quite a few years to finish.
The pressure to go to college as the only measure of “success” is so misguided. It is apparently politicially or even legally incorrect to guide students on other paths.
Finally, the student described in the article, who left Penn State, is a success story but it isn’t presented that way. She has a good job at Tufts after working for awhile as an opthalmological technician. Ending the article with the idea that she could have been an MD is just more of the same stuff at the lunch table. Isn’t it a success to have a good stable job that could help support you and/or your family?
She also could’ve attended UMass Boston and commuted if she lived close enough to the T. But then, let’s not confuse journalists with the facts (of life 'when ‘free college for all’ sounds more sexy).
It isn’t just a low income issue. And GCs can throw more info out there than they do. Affordability is something they can address, in general, NPCs can be discussed in detail, and what the state and its state schools offer and cost should be put out there. Sadly, GCs have been largely inadequate
HPY schools can be the very best deals for kids needing and qualifying for financial aid, and yet there have been many aspersions cast the GCs tend to steer kids AWAY from those schools I certainly hope that cost isn’t in that picture as the best financial aid packages often come from expensive private schools.
With 300 spots per unhooked gender (my back of the envelope post lawsuit estimate) at Harvard each year vs the 1.8 million USA based college applicants and countless overseas students in the mix - steering them away from these type of schools as the strategic financial option is basic, prudent understanding of the mathematics.
Sure, it should be part of the “apply to the high reach and pray” category - but without a well thought out plan for the statistical probability of a denial (even for the most competitive applicants) is malpractice imho.
Also, perhaps some lunch tables and at some schools they sneer at a student discussing attending the University of Massachusetts Amherst. That’s neither probable nor actually the case in the vast majority of schools. Perhaps parents. Not so much the students. It’s also so misplaced and uninformed it’s nearly a sickening level of elitism. But hey drop out of the expensive oos and avoid the sneers. Good trade off. Good lord.
CCs at private schools can advise families to look into costs, and some private schools may make referrals to and/or pay for consultants who can help families work through how they will pay for college, but for privacy reasons, I think most CCs cannot/do not do more than ask “have you investigated the affordability of these schools?”
I would imagine that a GC in a public school, even one in an affluent suburb, has even more constraints.
It’s tough because this is a critical issue while also being one that needs to be handled with great sensitivity. As mentioned by @TomSrOfBoston , there is peer pressure as it is. Having your GC suggest CC because you “seem poor” could come across as something far different than a good intention to get a kid to an affordable school (especially when the most selective schools have great FA.)
Agree with PB. Moreover, a good GC knows with near certainty that HYP only accepts the xx students per class and if low income student is xx minus 10, the odds have just dropped to near zero. For example, our HS Val has been accepted to Harvard most of the last 10 years. But ONLY the Val has gotten into H; all others from our HS are just wasting their app fees (unless they like playing the Lotto).
Couldn’t counselors avoid some of these issues by telling every junior and early senior to talk to parents about affordability and run net price calculators before making the application list?
@ucbalumnus , they could. And many do. But ime, it’s a small fraction of the families that actually pay attention, whether the info is mailed out, presented at a meeting, etc.
So the counselors end up defaulting to what they see as the norm in their community. I certainly see this is our LPS.
@privatebanker my reference to lunch table talk related to the Newton school system, which is pretty aspirational and high stress.
We used a mediocre high school system in a working class town and didn’t have that problem. However, our GC steered my kids away from Ivies because noone had ever gone to one and the GC thought they would be too expensive. We didn’t listen actually. Our goal was to reduce costs and Ivies were a good strategy actually.
My family has experienced a wide range of schools, from community college to Ivies. My favorite classes personally were UMass Boston, a very diverse environment with small humanities classes and teachers who care.
The real issue is that what people believe or want to believe is not reality.
What people believe or want to believe is that a high school student’s academic achievement is the primary factor in determining what college s/he will attend. But the actual primary factor is the student’s parental financial circumstances and choices.
Most people will do more research into their next phone plan than they will into the college application process and affordability.
The first time you look at a college website and see the cost of attendance, if that doesn’t tell you it’s time to do some serious research I’m not sure what will.
I know student at University of Rhode Island who is a Massachusetts resident. Is getting some financial aid, but still paying more than what UMass would cost. Parents doing it because she preferred URI.
It’s what parents do, what kids like, and that’s fine. But no sympathy about it costing too much from me.
Journalism seems to be a low income profession for most these days, so journalists may themselves be more likely to be struggling with student loans (even if only the federal direct loans). This personal experience may affect how they feel on the subject, whether or not it is representative of college students and recent graduates generally.