For Massachusetts Residents: Why Isn't UMass-Amherst "Better"?

College Search & Lists
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<p>[AICUM</a> - The Case for Adequately Funding Higher Education on Massachusetts](<a href=“http://www.masscolleges.org/index.php?Itemid=167&id=87&option=com_content&task=view]AICUM”>http://www.masscolleges.org/index.php?Itemid=167&id=87&option=com_content&task=view)</p>

<p>“Per-student spending on higher education in Massachusetts has been among the lowest in the nation. Massachusetts invests less than four percent of its state budget on higher education. In comparison, North Carolina invests more than fourteen percent. This decline in state funding has forced students to take out more loans or not enroll at all. This can only result in a brain drain and weakening of the Massachusetts economy.”</p>

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<p>The income reported in those tables is probably not salary, but earned from outside consultancies or other types of work; there are lots of assistant profs at medical schools, for instance.</p>

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<p>Why Haverford? I always thought that was a very distinguished and “college-y” sounding name. </p>

<p>I always had that reaction to Bates. Just sounds so plain. “Sorry, son, we couldn’t afford one o’ them fancy colleges, so you’re goin’ to Bates.” I know now that this is not at all accurate, but that’s how it struck me when I was a kid. </p>

<p>Also, I’ve always wondered if Penn has a bit less pull than other Ivies because its name sounds like a public U.</p>

<p>EDIT: Oh, and ElizaB–I’m curious what you mean by “out of control.” Are you talking about student behavior (parties etc.)? Or something else?</p>

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<p>People fixate on branding and are therefore led by it. Sometimes it works out for them.</p>

<p>When UMass starts denying admission to a larger number of Massachusetts seniors, their reputation will change. Until that point, whether it deserves it or not, it will be branded as a lesser school. This is especially unfortunate for parents in Massachusetts who have to worry about paying for a private school of questionable relative value to UMass.</p>

<p>For college bound kids at least, this won’t matter until they see their student loan bill when/if they graduate and since they’ve never known anything else, they have no context and won’t know that things could’ve been different.</p>

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<p>The “perception gap” concerning UMASS is closing rapidly. This is specifically due to some of the factors mentioned in the student article in the Boston Globe Sunday magazine. The new golden rule for high school seniors has now become “he/she who comes out of college with least amount of debt wins”. As more high school students and parents realize this (and it’s happening very fast) the more they will gravitate to UMASS. The incoming student profile is rising (in terms of quality) and I predict that within a decade UMASS’s enhanced reputation will match the reality of what the school actually is.</p>

<p>It was amusing to watch the perception gap increase over the last 15-20 years even though the quality of an UMASS education was actually increasing. And why was this? Other people have mentioned the fact that UMASS has the misfortune of being in a state jam-packed with stellar private school options. When there was a never-ending money supply (from parents and banks) there was the belief of “why should I settle for UMASS when there are so many other options available”. This drumbeat against UMASS even permeated kids who weren’t even considering the privates. These kids went to other public schools (UVM, UCONN, Colorado, etc.) and paid high out-of-state costs just to avoid having to “settle” for UMASS. Think of all the money that was spent on the OOS costs, travel costs, etc. and for what? Does anyone actually think that a degree from UVM or Colorado carries any more weight than a degree from UMASS?</p>

<p>I have the unique perspective of having transferred from the University of Texas-Austin to UMASS. The only differences I saw were in the weather and the size of the campuses. I encountered no downgrade in quality of education whatsoever. In fact, everything about UMASS was more intimate. Class sizes were smaller, teachers were more available and the campus was much more manageable. </p>

<p>The newspaper column hits on some of the main highlights of UMASS. Incredible course offerings, the ability to take courses at Amherst (which I did), Smith, Mount Holyoke and Hampshire, etc. There is every conceivable type of living environment. Want all out fun…choose Southwest. Want to tone it down a bit…choose Orchard Hill. There are incredible study-abroad opportunities (I know someone who studied in England this past semester). And then there’s the town of Amherst, one of the most vibrant college towns in the country. When you package all of this together (at an affordable price!) I’m not sure where you can do better. </p>

<p>I’m incredibly proud of my UMASS degree as is everyone else that I know. Speaking of which, I’ve yet to meet a UMASS grad that isn’t a very sharp person doing well in their field. My UMASS degree enabled me to continue on to graduate school and carve out a nice living. I was back on campus for a few days last year to take in a playoff football game and couldn’t believe the new facilities that have been built and the plans for new projects. Makes me wish I could turn back the clock and do it all over again.</p>

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<p>UMass is an underrated school not only because the state is overrun with private universities and colleges - many, many, many more than CT - but also because the power structure of the state is organized around those private schools. MA, for example, is the most Catholic state and a significant portion of the state hierarchy went to BC, which is also the major college sports center, is located in Boston and draws a lot of sports coverage. </p>

<p>It’s not only that we have many private schools, but those schools are very prominent and are located in Boston. Think of the list, every one within the Boston area: Harvard, MIT, Tufts, BC, BU, Northeastern, Brandeis, Babson (for business of course), and then you have literally dozens of other schools that get a portion of attention, from Wheelock to Simmons to NEC to Bentley. This is unique in the US.</p>

<p>UMass’ honors program - Commonwealth College - has the same admissions profile as a very good private college. UMass is a top tier research university - much more $$ each year from external sources than say UConn (but nowhere near the very top schools). </p>

<p>UMass has suffered in reputation within the state because of class divides and partisan politics. By class, I literally mean that the pressure within the more affluent districts to go to private school is over-whelming (my kids have gone and go to one of those schools). If you go to a top public school in Michigan, you aspire to Michigan. If you go to a top public school in Iowa, you aspire to Iowa. If you go to a top public school in Texas, you aspire to UT Austin. But in MA, you aspire to private school, particularly a prestige school and then a private LAC. </p>

<p>As for partisan politics, I mentioned that the state hierarchy is not oriented toward UMass. This has historically been acted on; it wasn’t until the Romney Admin that Amherst was designated the official flagship school. That’s because politicians from around the state wanted to pretend that Dartmouth and Lowell and the other public colleges were equal to Amherst and deserved as much money and attention - even though they aren’t and have not received as much money. This is also pretty unusual, though I don’t know enough about all states to say it’s unique. </p>

<p>That said, UMass has invested a great deal in its campus - as has every other school in the US. There was a bubble, remember? So when people say their school spent a ton of money, they ignore the reality that every school did. Money was cheap and it looked like you could raise tuition every year. UMass, for example, is now opening a 120,000SF student recreation center - you know, the kind with big screen tv’s and all that. They recently built a new business school and a new sciences building, renovated some of the dining facilities, etc.</p>

<p>And anyone who thinks that Amherst, MA is a bad location is … well, it’s one of the nicest, prettiest small towns in the US, like a New England postcard, and is next to Northampton, which is also one of the nicest small towns. It’s 75 minutes from Boston, not in the middle of nowhere. And UMass is part of the 5 school consortium and you can actually take classes at Amherst or Hampshire - which are very close.</p>

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<p>If UPenn sounds like a public university, NYU would sound like one too. I personally like college’s with unique names, but not like Colgate. Sarah Lawrence, Bennington, etc are names which are fine. The University of or something State is not that unique.</p>

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<p>The high-paid assistant profs (and profs) are all senior MDs whose primary hospital affiliation is UMass. The base salary is probably their academic stipend, and the higher amount their actual compensation for practicing medicine.</p>

<p>In some cases, especially with retired administrators or those close to retirement, what you may be seeing is lump-sum or short-term payouts of deferred compensation accounts (which were very common in 2008 because of changes in tax law and the expected change in the party in power in Washington).</p>

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<p>

[quote]
It’s 75 minutes from Boston, not in the middle of nowhere. </p>

<p>You must drive a whole lot faster than I do Lergnom because it’s easily a two hour trip from the Pioneer Valley to Boston. The distance is about 110 miles. Don’t get me wrong, I think the Amherst/Northampton area is great and has much to offer college students, but an “urban experience” isn’t one of the things that you’ll find there. Getting to Boston is a trek and not something a kid would do regularly. I live in Central Mass (about 40 miles west of Boston) and it takes me about 70 minutes to get to Amherst/Northampton.</p>

<p>I do agree that there’s a definite bias against going to UMass amongst upper-middle class kids from the best suburban high schools in the state. I know kids in our town who could go for free (parents teach at UMass Medical Schl in Worcester)–they didn’t even consider it.</p>

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<p>I agree that it’s because of history: there are so many private schools that go way back in the region. most of the top public schools were founded in areas where there were no virtually no other colleges. There’s also a culture of rich families, especially in the Boston suburbs area, who send their kids to private schools. Why UMass isn’t at least the best public school in New England, though, I couldn’t say (I believe it’s ranked below both UConn and UVM).</p>

<p>also why do people insist on writing things that are abbreviations, not acronyms, in all-caps? it’s UMass, not UMASS. when I read the latter I think you’re screaming it.</p>

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<p>My parents always said… Harvard/MIT or UMass. I thought that was ridiculous and vowed to claw my way into the highest ranked school I could get my hands on. In the end, that was BU/GWU, both of which at the time wanted to charge me $35,000 or so for on campus living with about $1,000 worth of grants (BU). UMass at the time was $9,500. I was upset at first but then I came to my senses and I am very glad for it.</p>

<p>It’s true what you say about sharpness. I know plenty of UMass graduates and all of them would be labelled as successful in their respective fields. I also hear no complaints about student loans from them. My high school friends who went to NEU, BU and WPI on the other hand are still paying off their loans. They’re also slower to buy their first condo/house as a result and are certainly not making more money doing the same job! The only clear distinction of monetary success that I have noticed come from some of the Harvard kids I know who went into i-banking which is at least now, no longer as lucrative.</p>

<p>What rank/prestige obsessed people do is fixate on the possibilities that supposedly open up at these special places. The smart ones maintain their perspective and remember that it’s what you make of it that matters. As long as the school/job you go to doesn’t suck the life/desire to succeed out of you, you’ll be fine.</p>

<p>As for branding, it is what it is. If you think Penn sounds bad and you decide to go somewhere that sounds cooler, then you’re an idiot and Penn is probably happy to not have you.</p>

<p>early_college: NYU has obviously branded better if it doesn’t sound like a public to you. Their admin/marketing deserves a nod.</p>

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<p>I do agree. Everyone knows of NYU for sure.</p>

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<p>UCONN is known nationally for it’s women’s basketball team, not it’s academics. New England public colleges are never going to have the national reputation that UVA or even University of Florida have for the very reasons stated here. How hard it is to get into Storrs has nothing to with that.</p>

<p>However, all colleges in New England, including the public ones, benefit from the academic reputation associated with that part of the country. </p>

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<p>My son is applying to colleges that range from the Ivy league to states schools, including this one. We’re trying to find matches for his personality that are also colleges where if he applies himself, the sky is the limit. UMASS Amherst certainly falls well within that catagory.</p>

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<p>As much as I sometimes wish we did not live in Texas, it really is a great place to be considering colleges for the kid. There is just none of that nonsense down here. </p>

<p>Sure, people think my S is a little crazy for not just taking advantadge of the top 10% deal and looking beyond UT Austin but they just blame his yankee mother ;)</p>

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<p>Well so far people have been comparing UMass to private colleges that charge $50,000/year and obviously UMass would be the cheaper, less debt free option. But what if the choice was between $15,000/year UMass-Amherst and $30,000/year (including room and board) other state college like Michigan State or Purdue outside of Massachusetts? I might go with the other state college even though it would mean paying a little bit more.</p>

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<p>Pug, why is it nonsense? If kids and parents do their research and determine that U Mass is a sub-optimal choice, what’s the problem?</p>

<p>Like my neighbor who %^&* that SUNY is too expensive and for that amount of money, “he can live at home at commute to Queens College”. I say, “hey, that’s great, to have an acceptable alternative that’s a train ride away that you can afford? Does it get better than that???”</p>

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<p>Here’s the million dollar question. Why?</p>

<p>Do you honestly think you’ll be getting a better education? You should compare lecture notes from equivalent courses between colleges. The part where you might discover that the 2 courses use the same textbooks and go through the same material will blow your mind. ;-)</p>

<p>I think it’s primarily a perception issue. If you’re unable to overcome this, no amount of rational discussion will change your mind. Also, depending on who you ask, a UMass degree is equivalent to a BU degree or a Michigan State degree. No offense to any of the more readily upward bound schools but brand recognition heavily favors the Harvard/MITs of the world and not the almost but not quite 30th to 70th “ranked” schools.</p>

<p>However, if the additional debt burden isn’t important to you now, maybe it’s worthwhile for someone with that mindset to go to Michigan St. or Purdue. Happiness is sometimes more important than pragmatism in my opinion.</p>

<p>I think picking a college is unique in that when you do make the decision, you’re young and impressionable, heavily swayed by your friends word of mouth, and likely to make decisions based on a magazine table. It’s just that it can get expensive.</p>

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<p>Yes it does blossom-<br>
Queens College now has a residence hall-</p>

<p>[The</a> Summit at Queens College | Queens College First Residence Hall | Flushing, New York](<a href=“http://www.thesummitatqc.com%5DThe”>http://www.thesummitatqc.com)</p>

<p>It’s sort of refreshing to hear other people complain about their state U system. It seemed as we New Yorkers seemed to complain the most.</p>

<p>Having a kid in SUNY- I’m beginning to see a bright side. I’m recognizing that there are a few program gems within our system- and it is generally pretty good. Can’t compare it to UVA or U Mich- but there are good programs within.</p>

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<p>frankly, that’s a very good point</p>

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<p>UMass is no UConn… Again, UMass lives in UConn’s shadow.</p>