None of us get to decide what someone else considers “too much” abuse, cruelty, neglect, etc. No one is ‘owed’ a conversation or a chance for reconciliation (and many times, those conversations have happened and were not heard by the person who has been estranged).
Minimizing contact can be another good option, if that is what someone chooses to do. Estrangement, imo, is also a potentially good option - and I don’t get to choose who is entitled to it or not.
Most estranged people aren’t trying to punish the person they are estranged from. Truly. They are making choices of what will be best for themselves and the family they continue to have relationship with. Choosing to have no contact isn’t a ‘power move’ or ‘punishing’. It is saying, “I am done. Whatever work you need to do going forward will be done without me. Go live your life, I am living mine”.
No one can be responsible for how someone else feels about the choice to not have a relationship with them. As psychologists across the spectrum on this issue have said, people dealing with estrangement need to work on themselves and continue living their lives. Focusing all this attention on what the other person should be doing or imagining the worst sort of motives on the part of the person who is choosing to have no relationship with you is unproductive to ‘getting over it and living your life’ or leaving the door open to the possibility of reconciliation. Again, in my opinion.
I think everyone is speaking from their own perspective, the experiences they have lived through. For people who have had abusive parents, they have more empathy for the child than the parent, I would think. But sometimes there are abusive children. The child is not always right, and yes, choosing to have no contact can be a power move and punishing. In my case, continuing to live my life who while knowing I am causing agonizing pain to my parents for reasons they didn’t understand, because they haven’t been told, would never be an option.
Agree 100%. And one sibling may decide “they did the best they could” while another experienced a much more damaging and toxic environment- in the same home. I know families where the parents divorced under the “much better for the kids” mantra. Sibling A was ready to leave for college so was relieved. And had agency- spending holidays wherever it was most convenient. Sibling B was in HS so the custodial parents preoccupation with work, dumping on the other parent translated into benign neglect- nothing terrible, just parents didn’t have the time for parenting a teenager. So fine. A HS kid doesn’t want a hovering parent. Sibling C was in middle school and needed a parent- any parent. Not the fun companion on the weekend for trips to laser tag and then pizza and then drop off back at mom’s. Not the mom constantly preoccupied– and now dating- so having a middle school kid was quite inconvenient. This is the kid who went from two squabbling parents to zero parents. And no agency at all. Not old enough so that a judge would ask “who do you want to live with?”- mom was the default. Not old enough to decide “I’m spending Xmas with dad’s parents and my cousins, even though the divorce agreement specifies that “mom” gets that holiday because I can’t take another depressing Xmas with mom whining that she isn’t getting enough alimony and has to work overtime to pay for my braces.”
Outsiders really aren’t in a position to determine which kid experienced a toxic upbringing- even in the same family.
My husband was in a conversation with a few of his five siblings, who were all complaining about his mother during their childhood. He didn’t even know what they were talking about, and disagreed completely, but grew to realize that they all had different childhoods and different relationships with their parents, though growing up in the same household.
I realize that the same thing happened in my family. My sister was the oldest, and the parental eye was fixed on her. She got all of the attention, which was quite a bad thing. My parents were exhausted by the time it came to me, and I was introverted, not much of a talker, so I slid by, barely noticed. I was definitely the lucky one. But as an adult, my sister has forgiven them and is as kind as possible to my mother, which is definitely more healthy for her.
For me, it was so hard giving up on the Team Oldmom vs Team DD mentality–how could she do this to me when I did so much for her. It just doesn’t work that way, at least for me and my family. Since she’s an only child, I am grateful that she has a healthy relationship with all of her cousins.
i’ve mentioned before that DIL had a very fraught relationship w her late mom, which disintegrated over time and DIL had very limited contact. She didn’t arrive at the choice lightly, and had some limited contact but nothing ever changed on the mom’s end. DiL and S tried many strategies and boundaries and mom remained steadfast in her behaviors.
Once they were engaged, the mom called me several times to “discuss” two things : her belief that her daughter was deeply inadequate and a constant disappointment to everyone, so she “appreciated” my son’s “patience” in marrying her…and then the second would be her wanting my insight into why her daughter didn’t have a “normal” relationship with her. She was genuinely baffled.
These are phone calls we never have mentioned to DIL.
As someone else responded, most viewpoints are based on personal experiences or the experiences of those close to us. I wouldn’t say “ most often” as you did above. . I’d also disagree that estrangement isn’t a power move in many cases. Not an intentional, evil emotional dismantling, but a definite position of deciding on the ground rules. Unfortunately for me, my SIL was involved in all my communications with my estranged brother. I couldn’t get around her and she definitely wielded the power.
I do think that the natural tendency is for people to blame the person who has been estranged as being the person at fault, particularly if it’s an adult child estranging a parent. There must be a good reason for it, right?
A parent can be cruel, cold, neglectful, selfish and uncaring to a child who in no way deserves it, and an adult child can be that way to a parent who doesn’t deserve it either.
I’m sorry about your brother. I love my sister dearly, and would be devastated if she went no contact with me.
I am going to change my wording (in this post and the original one) to “many times, those conversations have happened and were not heard by the person who has been estranged”. Thank you for pointing that out.
You are correct that the person not wanting a relationship does get to decide their boundaries. The not wanting the relationship part trumps anyone else’s desire to have a relationship.
We are all allowed to make those choices. We all set ground rules in the relationships we have in our initial dealings with others, and then the rules are mutually negotiated over the course of the relationship.
Relationships can be absolutely wonderful and also have the potential to be exceptionally painful. It hurts when someone no longer wants a relationship we still value and want to continue.
There’s a woman I know, in her 70s, who has been complaining about her parents her entire adult life. And HER last living parent passed away almost 20 yr ago. Everything she sees as dissatisfactory in her life, she attributes to her parents.
She’s almost the age that her mom was when her mom died.
Sometimes with individuals like that, you have to, at some point, stop blaming your parents and start taking control of your own choices and actions and behavior. For some, doing this is almost impossible.
Wow, I am exhausted after catching up. I read a post and I am like “yeah, totally agree…” and then I read another with a different opinion/POV and I am like “yeah, totally agree…” lol.
There are just too many situations and nuances for any one answer.
No contact feels very extreme (in general) to me, especially if there has been no communication about it. I am sure it is absolutely called for in some cases. But I would hope that in many cases, strategic distancing could be a good answer (Or “fluid distancing”. I am making these terms up! lol) Maybe even a lot of distance for a while, but just not no contact/cut them off for good.
In general, I do feel like there is some level obligation we owe to our parents (easy for me to say because I had a great childhood). Not the extreme cases, but for the situations where the kids just didn’t like the way certain things happened or were handled, or the parents can be difficult, etc.)
As an adult and as a parent myself, I feel like (in most cases) parents did their best with what they had (skills, knowledge, personality, time, money, etc.) I was recently telling my DC this as they telling me about issues their friend was having with their parents.
I remember, decades ago, a friend wishing their mother was more X. Well, I am sure the mom wished the friend was more Y. She is who she is and wishing for a different personality was not going to make it happen.
I hope any kid thinks long and hard about no contact. They could be the parent one day…
We like to say, when we spend too much time with loved ones, sometimes we see too many of the warts (blemishes), and we opt to be “busy” for awhile and cut back on frequency & duration of contact. It has worked well for us. We have quietly done this much of our lives and it has worked for us—we have what we consider close relationships with our loved ones, just not “joined at the hip.”
I am not estranged from anyone, so take anything I say with a big ol’ grain of salt. I do have a strained relationship with my brother due to his treatment of me during our parents declining years prior to their deaths. Don’t want to go into the details, but it definitely soured the relationship for me. I still see him, but I dread it and grumble about it before every visit.
I think some kids (definitely not all) go No Contact as a way to punish their parents because they are still in the “all about me” phase of life, which some narcissistic people never leave. Both my kids have some mental health issues and while I am not estranged from either I could see how a “all about me” kid could go No Contact with loving parents.
The fact is we just don’t know what most other people’s relationships are like, even if we are adjacent to the relationship. And we don’t always know how another person we are in a relationship with is perceiving that relationship. Maybe they take what we meant as a helpful suggestion or a show of love as telling them what to do and smothering them.
I think the main thing to do, is try to keep a foot in the door and don’t ask for replies or reciprocation, but keep offering love with no strings attached. Of course, a person who really wants to go no contact can change their phone number and move and really try not to be found. When that is the case there is not too much to be done. As long as you have an address or an email or a phone, you can keep a foot in the door with a short “hope you’re doing well” note, though.
I’ve believed for a long time that social media has ruined our society.
Thankfully I am not in this position, but I think the last thing I would do is put my kids on public blast if they went no contact. I mean, in a way you are kind of proving whatever point they think they have. There are no “winners” in this war, but a sure way to lose is to throw gas on the fire and hope it goes out by itself.
I am definitely “low contact” with my brother, and I hate that there is a label for it. When we talk it is very surface level, ignoring the herd of elephants in the room. I don’t talk about how he berated me - and my poor brother in law - days after my sister died because we kept her confidence in not wanting anyone to know of her illness. Were we wrong? Maybe. But I would have died before betraying my sister. And we don’t talk about how his daughter called me a selfish ■■■■■ to my face, in front of him, when she was 11. I would still need reconstructive surgery if I had done that to my aunts (or anyone) when my dad was alive.
So we are at a weird standstill. I think he is trying, to the extent that he is emotionally able to (we are the last remaining members of our origin family). And I’m accepting what he’s able to offer. He’s always been super intelligent and book smart, but I’m not so sure he had much emotional intelligence, and was easily influenced by others. He is not in the greatest of health these days, so maybe he’s home bored and therefore wants to talk every month or so.
it is impossible in many cases to understand why a kid has gone no contact or very low contract with parents who seem to have been good or at least decent parents. And to see kids that remain close to parents who appeared to be not very good parents.
A part of this may be whether the kid take the view that the parents did the best they could, with their own limitations on time, money, and their own childhoods and give them grace and forgiveness for their shortcomings. And some kids feel an obligation to remain in contact with their parents, even if it is not enjoyable to spend time with them.
What is most difficult is when the parent really has no understanding of why the child has gone no or low contact. If the child just cuts off communication, with no explanation, it is hard to heal things. OTOH, if the parent can’t reflect on what the child experienced growing up and takes no responsibility or is not willing to change the dynamic, there may be no hope for a better relationship. One friend’s very low contact kid has just said they would like to meet with the parents through a mediator or some other professional. Friend is very hopeful this will assist, but I am a bit afraid she is focusing on a specific reason for the low contact and not recognizing some very real issues in their relationship beyond that one issue.
Except grieve and live with the fear they’re dead or hurt and you’ll never know. If it’s your kid it’s like wiping out a good part of your life and trying to pretend it never happened.
