<p>Right. I’ve heard of systems where the families send gifts (fruit baskets, chocolates, flowers) to the houses their daughters are interested in. Way to go - make your system closed to girls who aren’t from money, who didn’t grow up here, who don’t have upper middle class backgrounds, who don’t have mothers or family friends who were Greek. Pathetic and over the top. Heaven forbid a girl just go and explore finding new friends at school without her family overseeing it. </p>
<p>Given that every sorority house but one on my campus was established there prior to 1900, and almost all are among the first ten or so chapters of their organization ever founded, I hereby decree that THAT is traditional, and reclaim that from the southern systems that give the whole thing a bad name. </p>
<p>Southern sororities, at schools where generations of the same family go to the school, are going to generate a whole lot of legacies. When people stay in the same place, in the same social groups, they may want their kids to stay put and join their group. Pizzagirl; you are interpreting this as being exclusionary. I am seeing it as not enough room for all the legacies and how do we handle that reality? You and I both see it as caring about family, but I see it as hoping your daughter gets to be in your group, your sister’s group, your mother’s group and so on. That doesn’t mean we don’t like “outsiders.” In fact, it is why groups limit the number of legacies they accept and open the group to those without the insider connections. And break some insider hearts in the process. Make fun if you want, but if you always planned on being in your mother’s group, this can be a major disappointment. You didn’t make the cut. And there is no way around this if you want the groups to accept those not so connected.</p>
<p>A girl who grows up with mother, aunt, grandmother very involved in a sorority alum group may well want to join that group. What is wrong with that? It is a tradition. Of course, I’m more than okay with any young woman rejecting that particular tradition. But if she embraces it, who are you to object?</p>
<p>You may remember, on several of these threads, I’ve proposed using a random lottery type system, instead of what we have now.</p>
<p>And to give heart, my d was a complete and total unknown. She said her sorority called her a find, someone not on their radar. I think a lot of what everyone on the outside thinks just flies out the window during rush. The outgoing, talkative, well put together girl will be fine. What breaks my heart are the ones who are just as wonderful, but don’t make a great impression the first 5 minutes or don’t do small talk well. I do believe the new system works as well as it can - where at pref night the number of girls left is divided by the number of houses and they get placed. So long as you stick it out to the end you will in all likelihood receive a bid. The problem becomes when the girls think only x,y and z are worthy of her. </p>
<p>Well, if we went to my random lottery system, there would be no more of this “only x, y and z are worthy” because we would get rid of tiers and legacy considerations in a few years. The groups would have to decide to accept the sisters they were assigned with open arms, but that seems a really excellent idea to me. I don’t expect to get others on board but really believe this is the solution to most of the complaints here. I think it is kind of genius, myself. :)</p>
<p>Well it would have to be big schools only. In smaller schools there really is a feel to a group. I do know my d said she walk into any of them and find friends. I don’t know that it doesn’t work out, maybe just a few here and there to make it worth the upheaval. Plus I can’t imagine the pearl clutching that would happen over that random system - lol </p>
<p>Is it necessary to look at tax returns to figure out if a kid came from money? D2 said that to me tonight. She also said requiring parents tax returns are rumors started by people who are judgmental of Greek life. She knows a lot of guys from one of the wealthiest fraternity at her campus and no tax returns were required.</p>
<p>@saintfan - was this experience a recent one? My D will be rushing there when the semester begins and this is not her impression at all. She is very socially savvy and is highly aware of the process. 4 rounds, 2 of which are t-shirts and jeans. She was told that LOR are not that important. She was able to spend this fall getting to know a lot of the girls in different sororities and has nothing bad to say about any one group. </p>
<p>@Pizzagirl - In all fairness, the intense competition doesn’t exist at all Southern schools. It’s more like the “top tier” houses on SEC and a few other campuses. Eyemamom’s story shows that it’s possible for a girl with no previous sorority connections at an SEC school to fare well during rush. </p>
<p>Also, Google competitive sorority recruitment. It’s not confined to the South! Looks like IU has/had a crazy competitive system. </p>
<p>Alh - I like your solution to the legacy issue. I think it’s especially devastating for a legacy to be rejected. </p>
<p>@Pizzagirl All houses may have made quota, but the university uses their average yield to get them there. Let’s say Theta has the highest yield - The Panhell adviser tells the Alum Rush adviser how long to make their list -say quota is 60- they may recommend 70 with 60 on the first list. Let’s just for argument say Alpha Phi is not as “popular” with rushees and thus has a lower yield. The Panhell Adviser will tell the Alpha Phi Alum Rush Adviser how many girls they suggest they include on their lists to make quota. In their case, it’s likely three times as long as Theta’s. So they list 210 girls to make quota of 60. Make sense? </p>
<p>None of this is public facing. Only Panhellenic STAFF and one alum Membership Adviser is supposed to know who ends up on the first list, second list, etc. </p>
<p>But yes, technically, Panhellenic can accurately “rank” sororities by their yield. (And IFC to a lesser degree, if they have an actual bid process through IFC).</p>
<p>No tax returns are required to join any National Panhelllenic Council sorority, ever.</p>
<p>Alumnae are now strictly prohibited from sending the house food or gifts of any kind during rush (for those of us that remember the 4 dozen red roses reminding us to “pick Whitney”)</p>
<p>All NPC sororities will now find someone to write a recommendation for any rushee they want to bid. The more you do upfront, great. But don’t fret if you don’t have one for a few houses. They will help if you are a match.</p>
<p>Yes, some rushes are more intense, not just in the south. But NPC is working hard to casualize the process. How many of us would have killed for two rounds in jeans??</p>
<p>Lastly, legacies at sororities are just like at colleges. There are simply just too many to take then all. The school I advised at for years had several houses with more legacies per rush than quota. They must manage expectations, but they try to do so delicately. </p>
<p>Any other questions, feel free to ask. I’m an experienced chapter adviser. I’ve got two sons who are current frat officers as well if frat info is needed. </p>
<p>“So what makes the heightened intensity of the southern systems “more traditional”?”</p>
<p>Maybe those chapters have changed less over time than PG’s chapter. Would members from the 1920s feel at home in their chapter if they magically showed up at rush in 2014? At Michigan, I doubt it. At Ole Miss, maybe (though they are ten times the size they used to be).</p>
<p>^^I don’t think this is allowed and believe the chapter must turn over the gift to the Panhell office.</p>
<p>My daughter and my niece both pledged my sorority. I made it clear to both before rush that they were to make their own decision on whether to pledge at all and whether to pledge my house (which of course is the best!). My daughter was considered a legacy but my niece was not. Both are happy but so is my other daughter who is in another house.</p>
<p>The tax form requirement is a ridiculous idea. While girls can send recommendations to the house, the house can make no private contacts to the girls or their families before the bid day. The members (or even an alum) cannot just call up Susie or Jane and request more information, tax or otherwise. </p>
<p>I’m not going to claim it is all fair. Many girls know members because they went to high school together, or are actually sisters or cousins. Girls who have a family member who was in a sorority may know the system, what to wear, how to act. Legacies get some bonuses but some negatives too. In my house, the legacy is invited to the last party (preference) she must be given a bid, so the legacy has one fewer party to sell herself to the members. If the members don’t think she’s a good fit, they won’t invite her to preference to give her one more chance. A legacy to one house may also be dropped faster by another because, just like Tufts, no house wants to be a safety. All recommendations are not equal. If the woman who was national pres. of my sorority writes a letter of recommendation, that girl is not going to be dropped (esp. if she is a legacy).</p>
<p>“All houses may have made quota, but the university uses their average yield to get them there. Let’s say Theta has the highest yield - The Panhell adviser tells the Alum Rush adviser how long to make their list -say quota is 60- they may recommend 70 with 60 on the first list. Let’s just for argument say Alpha Phi is not as “popular” with rushees and thus has a lower yield. The Panhell Adviser will tell the Alpha Phi Alum Rush Adviser how many girls they suggest they include on their lists to make quota. In their case, it’s likely three times as long as Theta’s. So they list 210 girls to make quota of 60. Make sense?”</p>
<p>The system I was familiar with did it the other way - at the end, if there were 10 houses and 300 girls going through, quota was set at 30. So everybody filled, unless they “suicided” (attended preference parties at Theta, Pi Phi and Chi O but put only Theta on their preference card). There was no such thing as “yield” because you don’t “accept” or “reject” bids from multiple places. If you put a house on your preference card, you were willing to become a member of it. So you put all 3 of your final houses down, and you were basically all but guaranteed to get one. </p>
<p>Quotas fluctuated - my year was 30, then 35 the year after, then 40 the year after. </p>
<p>I agree whoever said upthread IU has a terribly intense system. It seems mean for the sake of being mean. </p>
<p>PG, both my girls had pledge classes of around 45-50. D2 has a longtime friend who goes to U of Arkansas. They had so many girls go through rush that her pledge class is 200! I can’t even imagine how that works. She told us that they have to have Chapter meeting in shifts.</p>
<p>Sounds like that school really needs more sororities if the interest is that high. It sounds like this is also one of the schools where if you actually stick with the whole thing to the end, you are guaranteed a bid, which is contrary to the way people not familiar with the system think it works.</p>
<p>“Lastly, legacies at sororities are just like at colleges. There are simply just too many to take then all. The school I advised at for years had several houses with more legacies per rush than quota. They must manage expectations, but they try to do so delicately.”</p>
<p>I have followed my sorority sisters’ daughters as they have gone through rush at various schools. (My D’s school doesn’t have sororities.). Indeed, I obtained recs from other houses for some of them because I knew a Pi Phi and they didn’t, that kind of thing. Only one that I know of joined that same house (different campus) and it was viewed as “well, that’s neat,” but there was a general recognition that this was now 25 years later, on some different campus, and it wasn’t of any importance or expected for a girl to join her mother’s house because who knows what those girls were like. I wonder why the different emphasis? It’s THEIR experience, not ours (mothers). Yes, I might be upset if my daughter were cut - I get that - but I sure wouldn’t be upset if my daughter cut them. </p>
<p>Amd I say that as someone whose son joined his father’s house - on the same campus, no less - and I know my H was secretly thrilled, but it was completely up to my son and of course we would have supported him if he had chosen the other house he had a bid from. </p>
<p>I get the “family tradition” at the college level; it’s a little harder to personally grasp at the “Greek house” level because it’s such a personal experience. The girls are different 25 years later; why would you expect your daughter to necessarily like them? </p>
<p>"I’m not going to claim it is all fair. Many girls know members because they went to high school together, or are actually sisters or cousins. "</p>
<p>In full disclosure, having a sister there is COMPLETELY different from having a mother who went there 25 years ago. That was actually the worst part of rush - when a current member’s little sister went through. That happened twice in my house and people got nasty about it and little cliques formed and “well, I’m just being honest, I don’t think she’d fit here.” In my mind, you never cut a “blood” sister whose sister is right there. That’s mean and hurtful, and I’m ashamed of how some of us acted then. </p>