<p>I guess YMMV based on the sorority. I have anecdotal evidence from not only my own sorority, but also other sororities and fraternities on my campus. One person with no reasons given was enough to keep someone out. We followed Robert’s Rules but a few things like approving pledges had to be unanimous - ultimate democracy that is one person’s vote can override everyone else’s.</p>
<p>So, “most I am familiar with” perhaps not most. </p>
<p>I would say the rushing process was more like dating than job interviewing or college admissions, in our case. We wanted girls who had similar interests but not identical. Girls who could get along with others. Girls who would not drag our name through the mud. Girls who would be dependable. We focused on possible future leaders because the cycle was rather quick for leadership.</p>
<p>Perhaps “speed dating” was more what it was like, because we had rushing for up to four sororities or frats each evening of rushing, and we had shifts of potential pledges and were trying to keep lists of who was who (name tags and so on). The weird part was, and it was like dating in this regard, we didn’t have “no contact” rules so sisters could contact rushees outside of the rush events and try to convince them to come to our house instead of the competition. Like a guy who won’t leave you alone until you go out with him.</p>
<p>PG: My mom definitely saw it as service work (and not very enjoyable service work) and I believe my sister-in-law sees it as part of her service work as well. She is heavily involved in other volunteer activities, including with her church.</p>
<p>I am not seeing this as mothers pressuring their daughters. I see it as daughters wanting to emulate their mothers. It is like choosing a parent’s alma mater… where I’m from. I get it is not like that where you are from. That is why I’m taking the time to write all this.</p>
<p>If you think your daughters, and maybe even granddaughters, are potentially going to want to be part of your sorority, and probably the exact same chapter, you may have a different interest in how that chapter develops. I think that is just human nature. And why I’m proposing a new random lottery selection.</p>
<p>I come from a world where you are always planning at least two generations out, and your grandparents taught you to do so. </p>
<p>ETA: Not raising my kids in the state may have created one of those rifts in the space time continuum. I hope to be around (one way or another) to see how it impacts the grands and great-grands.</p>
<p>Regarding Dirty Rushing: SMU changed their policy this fall and allowed as much contact as wanted between sorority members and spring rushees. (all except visits to the house) My D was invited out for coffee, lunch, to the State Fair and was able to get to know a lot of different girls. She has some definite preferences about groups she feels like she fits in best. One of her favorites happens to be my sorority and as fun as it would be for her to pledge there, I have made it clear that this is HER group of friends to choose and has nothing to do with me. She is going in with an open, educated mind.</p>
<p>She did tell me that there are some moms who will be there for the week so that their Ds can stay with them and not feel any outside pressure from peers. This I don’t really get because my D is not going to be any more influenced than she already has been. But to each his own; every family works differently.</p>
<p>I’ll add that all communication ceased when fall exams began.</p>
<p>Rushing is like the admissions process. I was at a large SEC school and we wanted each pledge class to have some diversity - interests, hometown. For example, we had strong Jewish chapters on campus but we had many, many Jewish members in our chapter. </p>
<p>"you think your daughters, and maybe even granddaughters, are potentially going to want to be part of your sorority, and probably the exact same chapter, you may have a different interest in how that chapter develops. I think that is just human nature. "</p>
<p>I agree, but it’s interesting because this gets into different definitions of identity. To me a sorority is primarily for the collegians; alums are secondary. To you it appears it’s for both groups equally. Does that make sense? </p>
<p>And I feel like my ability to “influence how the chapter develops” stopped when I graduated. It’s the current girls’ job to figure out who they want to be and/or attract. We can offer advice and counsel, of course, and of course logistical help with financial matters, but I just don’t see it as my place to influence or have a say in who they recruit. (Assuming they aren’t mass murderers.) I trust them to know who they want to choose as friends. </p>
<p>The national president of my sorority’s daughter went to a school that didn’t have a chapter, so she joined a different house. Mother and daughter thought this was fine. Niece of this same president only considered schools with a chapter of our sorority - it was important to the niece to be in our house.</p>
<p>Most panhels at major universities have adopted a new (maybe 5 years old?) system for rush. There are formulas for how many potential new members (PNMs) can be invited to parties along the way, with the goal of having the most PNM matched as possible. Under the old system, any house could invite almost the entire pool of rushees to the early parties, so most of the ‘top’ houses were full every party while some of the newer or less popular were eliminated by the rushees, hoping for a bid from a top house. Now the ‘top’ houses (based on the history of making quota, number of spots available in the house, and other factors) are limited on the number of girls they can invite back earlier in the process, thus funneling more girls to the other houses, keeping more girls in the rush process longer. There is also a ‘guarantee’ that if the rushee always accepts the maximum number of parties/houses in a round, and the girl goes all the way through preference, and puts three houses on her bid card (if 3 is the maximum), she will get a bid even if she’s not on any of the three bid lists. It’s called ‘quota plus’. I’m not sure how the house is chosen, but the girls never know who was a “plus” bid. Only the computer knows!</p>
<p>The alums were never in our meeting when building our bid list, so had no input. How it worked on our campus, and most that I know, was we created a list with the number girls we wanted to invite, the number being the quota set by the panhel. This list was alphabetical. Then there was a list of all the rest of those who had attended the preference (last) party in the order we’d like to have them. Over in the big panhel matching meeting, someone would read off a girl’s preference card, and if she was on the preference list of the house she wanted, the house rep would call out ‘Match’ and she’d receive a bid. The other houses that might have had this girl on their ‘first list’ would then cross her off and move the first name from the ‘second list’ to the top list. If there was no match for the first house, they’d see if there was a match for the girl’s second choice. Etc Etc. Now this is all done by computers.</p>
<p>No one member had an absolute veto power. Ever. At most, the PNM would be way down on the acceptance list. It really wasn’t about not accepting members, but who was highest on the list.</p>
<p>The new system seems to be working well. Most campuses have become very successful in having every girl who wants a bid get a bid. Alabama this year had about 2500 girls start rush and about 2200 pledge in the 16 national sororities (there are also a few with special focus like music and religion, and there are historically black and hispanic groups). The distribution seems pretty even among the 16 houses.</p>
<p>Some campuses do need more houses to cut down on the size of the pledge classes (the greek organizations and the universities really do want every student who wants to join a frat/sorority to have a place in the system) but adding a new house isn’t easy and it is very expensive for the national organization. Some schools require the new house to have a physical house of the same size and in the same location as the existing houses. These houses can cost $5-10 MILLION dollars. The national has to front this money (through mortgages, contracts with the university, local alum fundraising). It takes years of planning.</p>
<p>In my sorority, it took more than one vote to keep a girl out. I thought the official discussion and voting process was very democratic and fair. The behind the scenes process not so much. There was a lot of lobbying and negotiating for various PNMs among members. A PNM who got paired at a party with a vocal, stronger member who liked her fared much better than a PNM paired with a less active member. </p>
<p>Sometimes it’s hard not to engage in dirty rush when there’s an existing friendship/relationship with a PNM. Or, when rush occurs second semester freshman year - especially if it’s a small school where freshman have a lot of contact with upperclassman. I think there is a line though between maintaining or developing a friendship and dirty rush. When a PNM is invited to parties/events at a house that are not otherwise open to freshman, or told by various members that she is assured a bid (which can be dangerous and potentially devastating for the PNM if something goes wrong) - I consider that “dirty rush.”</p>
<p>Dirty rush as I understand it is anything from mom’s calling pnm’s to feel them out, to the sorority contacting the pnm outside rush or guaranteeing anything to them -even a - see you tomorrow…wink wink…is dirty rushing. The hard thing is girls can fall in one with one place, can be assured by those girls rushing her that she’s in…then she can be dropped. But the mom’s contacting the pnm’s is probably the most over the top, get a life behavior I can imagine.</p>
<p>“There is also a ‘guarantee’ that if the rushee always accepts the maximum number of parties/houses in a round, and the girl goes all the way through preference, and puts three houses on her bid card (if 3 is the maximum), she will get a bid even if she’s not on any of the three bid lists. It’s called ‘quota plus’. I’m not sure how the house is chosen, but the girls never know who was a “plus” bid. Only the computer knows!”</p>
<p>That’s the system we had, 30 years ago. We used those old-fashioned punch cards and fed it all in by hand but I’m sure today the match occurs in 30 seconds time on a computer. </p>
<p>I think really the best way is to think of it like colleges, insofar as there is no one “perfect” house, but several houses where you really could have a nice time, make friends, etc. I happened to have gotten my first choice house but I’m quite confident I would have had an equally nice time if I’d gotten my second or third choices. At the end of the day, it’s all new friends and it’s what you make of it. It was a good thing I was naive enough not to “dream of being a Kappa” or whatever - I just kind of went in blindly. Sally305 and I were in different houses, but I’m quite sure I would have fit in fine there and she would have fit in fine at my house if that’s how it had happened. There aren’t that many differences. </p>
<p>Alh - I was thinking about this a bit more (you’re very provocative, and I mean that in a good way!).</p>
<p>On the guy side: My husband is not on Facebook, but a lot of his fraternity brothers, and so I’ve friended them and vice versa and we catch up periodically. So when I say “oh, our son wound up being a XYZ there too,” they smile and say isn’t that nice, but some of them also have sons who attended NU - some of whom didn’t like the XYZ chapter at all, and others who pledged elsewhere – and one never gets the sense that it’s a “disappointment” that their sons went elsewhere or didn’t go Greek at all. It’s very much of the “well, XYZ was right for me, but it might not be right for my son, and that’s fine and dandy - if he’s happy, I’m happy.” Does that make sense?</p>
<p>On the girl side: I only know of one sorority sister of mine whose daughter became an ABC (at a different school), and it so happens she didn’t like it and wound up depledging. No one seems to have any heartache over this, even though not only was my friend an ABC, but she had two sisters who were as well. Again, it seems that it’s approached more with the attitude of “we enjoyed being ABC’s, but it just wasn’t right for [this girl], and again, if she’s happy, we’re happy.”</p>
<p>One of my closest friends was our chapter president, and she remained (remains) a close friend though she has moved elsewhere. Her daughter (2 years older than my kids) went to NU. Her daughter was pretty much the complete antithesis of sorority girl and just had no interest in the whole thing. That was fine. I don’t think my friend was disappointed at all, even though she had obviously enjoyed and been a leader in her own Greek experience. The coda to that was that when my son went off to NU, I said - you know xxx’s daughter is there, you guys used to vacation together when you were kids, why don’t you get together (I didn’t mean romantically, just in the sense of having a friend on campus). Much as both my friend and I tried, the kids really never got together - even for coffee. Which on one hand is a bit of a shame, but on the other hand - it was their lives to lead, it wasn’t a continuation of our friendship as parents. Does that make sense? I think it’s just a different sense of family tradition vs emerging independence. </p>
<p>@Momzie - Based on what I know, I don’t think being an ethic minority will be an issue - at least not at most houses. Has your S attended any of the “get to know the freshmen” events at any houses? </p>
<p>I still haven’t explained this adequately. It isn’t about parents wanting their kids in their groups. It is about parents wanting their kids to have the opportunity to be in the group, if their kids want that particular group. (Compare to HYP parents. Do they care if their kids choose another college because it’s a better “fit”? Not in my experience. Do they care if HYP rejects their kids? Absolutely - again, in my experience. ymmv. Do they donate and stay involved as alumns to try and give their kids an edge? Sometimes they do.)</p>
<p>I am the eldest of a pretty large family. My sisters pledged my group. I didn’t care if they wanted another group but if they wanted mine, they were getting in. When my baby sister came through rush, I was long gone and had a phone conference with our other sisters about my expectations for them to see she had a great rush and if she wanted our group that she was in. Yes, I am a bossy big sister. None of us would have cared if she had decided she liked another sorority better. We just wanted her happy. She pledged, too. She flunked out of college at the end of her freshman year. My mother called me up to ask advice. Just the week before little sis got her grades, Mother was elected President of the Mother’s Club (again) and she wanted to know if I thought she could gracefully resign since she didn’t have any daughters currently in the group. (To understand this story, you have to just accept that everyone always wanted my mother to run everything, because she was amazing and wonderful, and she only did it to be nice. It was never her thing.) She was concerned it might reflect badly on sis if she ever decided to go back to college and become active in the sorority again. I asked what she thought the chances of that were, since sis had just gotten engaged and was busy reading Bride magazine and planning a holiday wedding. My mother never was involved in any sorority stuff, except that it might be something that benefited her daughters. But if we had decided we liked other groups better and pledged different groups, I’m sure she would have been secretly relieved. She could have taken a break from sorority activities till she saw if she was having any granddaughters to be concerned about.</p>
<p>My sister-in-law wouldn’t have cared in the least if her daughter had liked another group better than ours. But she didn’t. So we all wanted her in. Other nieces belong to other groups. For a variety of reasons. We are just as pleased for them to pick different groups, but it isn’t anything we can help them out with. Unless we have friends…</p>
<p>adding: My mother didn’t think the particular sorority was important, but she couldn’t imagine not belonging to one, which is why I didn’t quit after my first experience with rush as an active, when I left and went home ranting about racism and judging on appearances. She told me change is very slow, that the group was different now than in her day. I had already refused to join a church and refused to learn bridge, but these were deficiencies that, in her mind, could be corrected in the future. Leaving a sorority was irreversible. And it may have impacted my younger sisters. So that decision wasn’t all about me. I didn’t stay in the group because I was pressured by my mother. I did it out of love.</p>
<p>alh, I have enjoyed your posts because your description of how it goes on and on (networking, marriages, businesses) in life is what I understood it to be. And probably one reason why I just never even pretended to want to join one. It’s just not my “thang”, all that social group stuff. It’s wonderful for those who desire it, though.</p>
<p>"If Chi-O is your least “poplar” house, they will get very few girls from their first second and even third bid list. They may even be asked to take girls who did not match any of their 3 choices or who were previously cut from all houses.</p>
<p>They then have the lowest “Yield rate” from their first bid list, and the school and National know they are the least desirable chapter."</p>
<p>Ha! This is the house I would have WANTED to be in. Where everyone isn’t cut from the exact same pattern.</p>
<p>“I still haven’t explained this adequately. It isn’t about parents wanting their kids in their groups. It is about parents wanting their kids to have the opportunity to be in the group, if their kids want that particular group. (Compare to HYP parents. Do they care if their kids choose another college because it’s a better “fit”? Not in my experience. Do they care if HYP rejects their kids? Absolutely - again, in my experience. ymmv. *Do they donate and stay involved as alumns to try and give their kids an edge? Sometimes they do.” *</p>
<p>Ah - I think this is where the difference occurs. Let’s say my D had gone to my school, for the sake of argument. If she went through rush and decided “my mom’s group, where I’m a legacy, is where I want to be” then of course I’d want/hope/pray that she got it. But I wouldn’t have wanted her a priori to have wanted to have felt that she either should or must join that group, just because it was mine. And I wouldn’t have wanted/hoped/prayed any harder that she got into my house, than any other house she would have wanted. It would have been about her. Not me in the least. </p>
<p>PG: I really thought the essence of what I just wrote was: It isn’t about mama. It’s about the daughter. It isn’t about me. it’s about my sisters (or my hypothetical daughters)</p>
<p>I am exhausted thinking about this. Thank goodness I only have one young cousin still maybe going through rush. Then all done till the next generation. Hooray!!!</p>