<p>VaBluebird - “most desirable” doesn’t necessarily mean “everyone’s cut from the exact same pattern.” The extent to which houses are uniform vs heterogenous I would imagine will vary from school to school. After all, some schools attract more homogenous student bodies than others. </p>
<p>I just asked D2 about the scenario presented where one member can effectively blackball a girl the entire sorority loved. She said no way would a member be allowed to dictate something like that to the sorority. She would be required to give a legitimate reason and even then could easily be overruled if it was not deemed to be a credible objection. “She slept with my ex boyfriend” would not cut it.</p>
<p><a href=“Prepping Students for Sorority Rush - The New York Times”>Prepping Students for Sorority Rush - The New York Times;
<p>Hahaha…can you imagine? If your child is that socially awkward that they need this kind of assistance I doubt the coach can really do all that much. And I doubt sorority life is for them. </p>
<p>In my SMU example (which was determined to have changed since this client’s daughter’s experience) the mom described a bid day where all the girls were there in assigned seats and instructed to reach under chairs, I believe it was, for envelopes with their bid but not everyone got a bid. Her D did but said it was pretty horrific for those who didn’t. </p>
<p>Oy. That’s not nice.</p>
<p>Regarding the clothing: My school does it so that everyone wears the same t-shirt (a panhel t-shirt) for the first set of parties, and casual clothing, including jeans, are appropriate for the second and third set. It’s only the last set at which someone would dress up. I think that’s a great enhancement, since it takes away the compete-on-how-expensive-my-clothing-is component. I totally get that there are other ways someone could “show” their wealth (jewelry, handbag, etc.) but that at least gives more of a level playing field.</p>
<p>And the idea of Lilly Pulitzer in a northern winter setting is amusing - that does NOT happen here!</p>
<p>Again, that is a second party story and it sounds like it has changed, but it seems that there is some tendency to over the top policies at some places that were unheard of at others. (Dang dog keeps typing for me!)</p>
<p>Nowadays, the people who are not invited back to the round of parties are called by the volunteers. They can talk to them, cry on their shoulder, etc. That doesn’t mean that crying and bad feelings do not happen on bid day. If you loved two chapters and hated your third but listed it to maximize your options, there is still a chance that you will be a member of the third sorority. Of course, you could grow to love the chapter and realize it was the best thing for you, but tears do flow. </p>
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<p>Speaking for the socially awkward cohort, this is the kind of remark that makes me instinctively feel that sororities are nasty, snobbish places full of women who like to sneer at other women. “Hahaha, look at her! Can you imagine that she even thinks about rushing this sorority? Obviously, she doesn’t belong here, that pathetic worm.”</p>
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<p>The “socially awkward” bit is ironic considering I attended college during the grunge/pop-punk era when there was a widespread disaffection for “establishment” associated organizations like pan-hellenic organizations. Among many similarly aged peers during undergrad and a few years after, pan-hellenic organizations was commonly referred to disdainfully as “buying one’s friends”. </p>
<p>Even on campuses where such groups were commonplace, it seemed much easier to be a non-affiliate than what I’ve seen and heard from students who started college several years later when pan-hellenic organizations came back into fashion. </p>
<p>If anything, being a fraternity/sorority member was considered the opposite of “cool” in many areas back then and being a non-affiliate was considered a sign one was more socially confident, independent, and not needing to bolster one’s ego by joining an organization which is exclusive on social grounds and indirectly SES grounds(initiation, membership, and participation fees/costs can be quite dear).</p>
<p>Personalitywise, I also felt it would have been too constricting at that stage of life to confine myself mostly to one group for undergrad and closely conform to club rules which IMO are a bit silly at best and demeaning/destructive at worst*. I had lots of fun mixing with different types of people and doing so on my own terms. </p>
<p>Hey, I still do so to some extent nowadays. Even friends with eclectic sets of friends and acquaintances marvel at how it seems like I interact with people as if I had known them for a while. Just a couple of days ago, a friend who knew a regionally well-known underground rock musician for years thought I also knew him for years based on how we greeted and talked as if we were long-time friends when in actuality, I had met him just a couple of minutes previously while coming into the musical performance venue. Granted, said musician was very friendly and personable even though his performance persona is the near complete opposite. </p>
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<li>Many fraternities/sororities relatives/friends involved in or ones in the area I’ve lived in after college had a culture of heavy drinking for the sake of getting wasted. Considering I grew up in an old NYC neighborhood where I’ve seen the damaging effects of drug and to a slightly lesser extent, alcohol addiction and had an older cousin in a frat whose beer/partying double major nearly got him booted from college, that wasn’t a scene I had any desire to be a part of. I also say this as someone who was tapped and begged to join an underground frat at my LAC.<br></li>
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<p>Not interested…especially considering the campuswide ban on panhellenic or any socially exclusive/“secret societies” extended to enrolled students’ associations with them. Being a member of such organizations can result in sanctions upto and including possible expulsion according to the student policies everyone at my LAC agreed to as a condition to matriculate there.</p>
<p>Cardinal Fang: I wrote in #95
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<p>It isn’t clear to me if eyemamon was in a sorority. I was. One thing the sorority is supposed to do is teach social graces. One of the most socially awkward members in our group was one of my real life sisters, so I take issue with the idea a sorority is not for the socially awkward. It can be wonderful for them. In the best of worlds it is a safe haven. However, my reading of the article wasn’t that these women were awkward, but that they needed education in a culture with which they weren’t familiar to be successful in rush. There was a comparison to coaching folks for Wall Street. It seemed a pretty good business idea to me and incredibly useful. For those who care about these things.</p>
<p>A sorority is a lot more than rush.</p>
<p>"Speaking for the socially awkward cohort, this is the kind of remark that makes me instinctively feel that sororities are nasty, snobbish places full of women who like to sneer at other women. "</p>
<p>I had the same reaction you did to that comment. It is true that a socially awkward person will not do well in rush. However, she won’t do much better in the dorm either (or in job settings down the road). The ability to engage in small talk is a really, really important life skill. Some people are naturally and intuitively good at it; I envy them as it is a skill I have to consciously cultivate. </p>
<p>CF, I also assure you that a socially awkward person would have been treated respectfully. I know it’s easy to imagine a group of cackling girls tee-heeing at the nerd, but it didn’t work that way. The goal of every interaction was to try to find common ground, to find something that might spark a connection, and we worked to try to do with each girl - whether it was what city they were from, what their major was, what hobbies they had. When we spoke about/reviewed whether we wanted a given girl to come back, it was NEVER in a sneering or condescending way or with disrespectful words. We didn’t comment on physical appearance or clothing (except for placement purposes - she was the girl in the red dress). </p>
<p>“also felt it would have been too constricting at that stage of life to confine myself mostly to one group for undergrad”</p>
<p>As has been explained numerous times, you are not “confined” to that group. Nothing prevents you from joining / leading other clubs. Nothing prevents you from hanging out with the folks you like from chemistry class or going out for pizza with your friends who are in different houses or not Greek at all. If you’re not living in the house, you can room with whoever the heck you like.
I’m really tired of this continued accusation that now it’s an exclusive friendship group and a Kappa could never have coffee with a Pi Phi or tongues would wag. It’s simply not true and you need to retract it. </p>
<p>“And closely conform to club rules which IMO are a bit silly at best and demeaning/destructive at worst”</p>
<p>The only “rules” of note were paying dues, attending chapter meetings and participating rush. They are no more onerous than joining the newspaper club and being expected to turn in your articles and participate in relevant meetings. </p>
<p>There are no “rules” about having to drink. I didn’t. My husband didn’t. My son says no one was ever forced to drink and I believe him since he’s not the lying sort. </p>
<p>Stop making up stuff, because that’s what you’re doing. I don’t care what your interminable “friends and cousins” say. I was in the system. You weren’t. I know what I experienced and you are far, far off the mark. </p>
<p>PG: I don’t know if you saw #119, but did want to be sure you knew I responded to you, since I’m not going to be able to follow this thread all day today.</p>
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<p>I get that not everyone thinks highly of Greeks, heck, I wasn’t interested in it myself, but that’s a hugely unfair blanket insult.</p>
<p>D2 would walk out of any session where sorority members were “sneering” at socially awkward girls and calling them worms. In her sorority, it’s far more about advocating for girls they love rather than taking time to be nasty about girls who are “awkward.”</p>
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<p>I had lots of Greek friends, and lived with several different ones throughout college. Since I wasn’t in a sorority, how was this possible? After all, since apparently Greeks are not allowed to have “fun mixing with different types of people and doing so on their own terms,” how is that I kept running into them in the various official and nonofficial settings in which we became friends? Hmm…</p>
<p>I am not so arrogant as to assume I speak for all sorority women, but at this point on the thread it might be useful if those defending sororities disclosed whether they are members. I am absolutely okay if you aren’t and defending your daughters’ involvement. Way to go moms!</p>
<p>I liked CF’s post. So did PG. We were in sororities.</p>
<p>No, I wasn’t greek in college. I just can’t imagine under what circumstances you would hire someone to coach you to help you get through a sorority rush. I can’t imagine someone who was confident and sure of themselves would need someone to tell them how to talk to other girls their age. Embrace who you are and join the sorority that suits you, not who you wish you were.</p>
<p>I was not in a sorority. At the time, I had mixed thoughts about the whole thing until I got to know many of them through my dorm, through my major, and through some various clubs and organizations. I learned they were no different from anyone else on campus in terms of character, integrity, or personality. In other words, just like the unaffiliated, some were nice, smart, not so nice, not so smart, funny, not funny, or any other quality you can find in the population. I’ve known just as many jerks in life who were unaffiliated as those who were. Well, considering Greeks only made of 12% of the student population at my school, I probably met many more unaffiliated jerks.</p>
<p>For me, this is like learning to use the correct table utensils. It isn’t something you know intuitively. Didn’t someone teach you at some point to shake hands and look people in the eye? Some need more coaching. It really isn’t a big deal. imho</p>
<p>When my kids first started interviewing when they were high schoolers, we did all kinds of family coaching and role playing. When they interviewed after college, they had older friends and adult mentors coach them. I always thought this was how the smart, savvy folks always worked the system. ymmv</p>
<p>It might be the sort of thing taught in a greek group. :)</p>