<p>Why is it that on every thread relating to Greek life, non-Greeks feel compelled to post anti-Greek comments? There are plenty of other threads devoted to such. If you hate the Greek system or simply see no value in it, fine. Don’t join or don’t encourage your kid to join. To each his own. But bashing it at every opportunity sounds like sour grapes to me. </p>
<p>Being Greek enabled me to mix with MORE friends than if I’d been stuck with my (small) dorm or (small) major. </p>
<p>Where do people get this stupid assumption that you can’t join other clubs or have outside friends? Do they just make it up?<br>
One of the selling points is precisely that “our house has members who are active in this club, that club, that team, etc.”<br>
And that your brothers/sisters will support you in activities (cheer for you if you are in theater, come to a speaker you have invited to campus, etc). </p>
<p>“When my kids first started interviewing when they were high schoolers, we did all kinds of family coaching and role playing. When they interviewed after college, they had older friends and adult mentors coach them. I always thought this was how the smart, savvy folks always worked the system. ymmv”</p>
<p>I agree. We did the same. </p>
<p>I think coaching on how to present oneself effectively in new situations is useful. I dislike wrapping it up in “sorority rush” specifically as I think it’s a far larger life skill. </p>
<p>Btw, some of the so-called “superficial sorority types” are very skilled in drawing out people in real life. That is a skill that I admire, as I don’t really have it - IRL I tend to be quiet until I know someone and only then am I chatty. But that’s not how the works works; the skills I use now when I walk into a room of 40 clients and establish connections aren’t that far off from the skills I developed / used to present myself well in rush. </p>
<p>Cardinal Fang: On further consideration, it seems to me sororities and fraternities are really good homes for the shy and socially awkward. One of my nieces is really shy and there was no question in anyone’s mind she needed to pledge a group so she had a constant circle of friends and structured social activities, a safe place to be on a large campus. It would have been impossible for her to form relationships with so many classmates on her own and she may have just hidden in her dorm room. Also, it put her in a culture where she could see how the other girls handle social expectations. It has been a great experience for her and she has grown a whole lot.</p>
<p>I am a member of a sorority. My parents and 3 siblings are members of various Greek organizations. My S, who attended State flagship, joined a fraternity and my D plans to rush this semester at her Southern LAC. </p>
<p>My father was president of his fraternity back in college. He came from a poor family, and was twice elected President of his house - partly because the President got free room and board and it was the only way he could stay in college. My father is extremely smart and considered very handsome, but he used to stutter and was very shy as a result. His experiences in his fraternity helped him to overcome his shyness and stuttering and to learn social skills he wasn’t taught as a child. He attributes much of that to his later success in life. </p>
<p>Oh and my H is a member of a fraternity too. None of us attended the same college or are members of the same Greek organization. </p>
<p>"Cardinal Fang: On further consideration, it seems to me sororities and fraternities are really good homes for the shy and socially awkward. One of my nieces is really shy and there was no question in anyone’s mind she needed to pledge a group so she had a constant circle of friends and structured social activities, a safe place to be on a large campus. It would have been impossible for her to form relationships with so many classmates on her own and she may have just hidden in her dorm room. "</p>
<p>As someone who was quiet and shy and introverted in high school and didn’t come out of my shell til college – I say … yes, yes, a thousand times yes to this.</p>
<p>Being in a house gave me a structured space for socializing – hey, we’re going to go mingle with the guys at XYZ tonight, we’re going to go to the movies or go downtown or whatever, come join us … In a way that I NEVER would have done if I’d been left to my own devices. Knowing me and my introverted nature, like alh’s niece, I would have indeed just hidden in the library or in my dorm room. I never would have had the guts to have walked into a party on my own on a Saturday, or gotten up the nerve to ask the girls down the hall if they wanted to go to the movies with me, or whatever. Having a structured approach to socializing – where activities were “ready” for me and I knew I would be immediately welcomed – made all the difference in the world. </p>
<p>Terrific post, alh.</p>
<p>I think alh makes another good point – interestingly enough some of my BFFs are very extroverted talk-the-ear-off-anybody types, and I learned from watching them how to make small talk. It’s a soft skill that doesn’t come naturally to me. We all learn from each other.</p>
<p>And in terms of diversity - good grief, I can count on my facebook sorority sisters who are corporate big-wigs, doctors, lawyers, public servants, a former writer for the NYTimes, a yoga studio owner who just published her second book, a professor of public health, a professor of psychology, a Tony-award-winning costume designer on Broadway, a minister, some very active volunteers – just all different kinds. This was NOT preparation for the Junior League (although there’s nothing wrong with the JL as far as I’m concerned, either - not my personal style, but to each her own). </p>
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As a commuter, being Greek gave me many more opportunities to get involved on campus and in traditional college life. At my school, most commuters stuck with their high school friends and bolted from campus the second class was over to go to work. I didn’t want that and my sorority truly was my home away from home. As for Greeks only socializing with people in their own house or in the Greek system, virtually every one of my sorority sisters had an “outside” group of friends, such as people from their hometown or major. I hung out with co-workers from my off-campus job and my childhood friends as well as other Greeks. It was all good. </p>
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<p>There’s merit in what you say, and what Pizzagirl says here and has said elsewhere about a sorority giving her a group of friends. I was reacting specifically to eyemamom’s comment about the socially awkward girl not belonging in a sorority. Certainly, the socially awkward girl who doesn’t know the unwritten rules of clothing style will be at a disadvantage during recruiting. </p>
<p>The sororities Pizzagirl describes sound like friendly groups of young women. The sororities at those southern schools with letters of recommendation and alumnae nixing pledges of the wrong color (or nixing any pledges) sound awful.</p>
<p>CF: I’m on record as proposing a random lottery selection for sororities. Overthedge may be on board, if memory serves.</p>
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<p>We had a girl in our sorority who wasn’t very “connected” as her family had moved to the state when she was in middle school. One way to describe her was “trying desperately to acclimate and fit in.” Another way would be “social climber”, a description I’m sure her future mother-in-law used. (nasty woman) When we were having elections one year, the president came around to talk to us individually and tell us we really needed to elect Yankee girl to an office because it was going to be necessary for her to be in Junior League and Junior League was going to be necessary for her happy future with the future in-laws. As I recall, she ran unopposed for secretary. So this was how one southern sorority got behind their own. I think the president may have been a friend of hers from high school. I know the fact her boyfriend came from a high status family, and was in a high status fraternity probably helped get her in the group. So there is that. But once in, it was pretty beneficial to her. We had her back. </p>
<p>My nephew is in a fraternity. He is also an officer of the Panhellenic Council at his university. He serves on a committee chaired by the dean of students. He has held both treasurer and president positions in his chapter. These leadership positions put him eight in line for a job they actually created for him at his university. </p>
<p>No one else on my family is a member of a sorority or fraternity. We all agree that his has been terrific for this young man.</p>
<p>Social life is one of those areas where it’s impossible to generalize. On every campus, Greeks can and do have friends and activities outside their chapters. But it’s really different (say) on a campus without houses or with deferred recruitment as compared to the opposite end of the spectrum at some SEC and comparable schools, where rush happens freshman fall and all NPC/IFC Greek members have to buy meal plans at their houses, even if they don’t live in the house. If you’re primarily eating at your house 10 meals a week or so during freshman fall, that’s going to have an impact on your social connections throughout college. Of course you can eat at each others’ houses, eat some meals at the college cafeterias, etc. But that kind of setup is designed to maximize kinship within houses, not outside of them.</p>
<p>^right… I lived in a house with that sort of set-up, and on sorority row, so easy walking distance was all people more like one another than not.</p>
<p>If you are someone with no difficulty socializing, the constraints put on your time by various sorority obligations can be burdensome. Or if you are just someone who doesn’t care for typical sorority activities.</p>
<p>Disclosure: I am a third generation Greek. My grandmother, mother and I were all in sororities (all different ones- my poor daughter is a legacy to 3 houses!) my dad, brother and my husband are Greek. My mom, grandma and I were all Panhellenic Officers and we all served as alums on house boards and/or Fraternity (National) positions. </p>
<p>My two sons are in the same house at different schools, one being at the school @saintfan 's daughter attends and is about to rush at, best wishes to her. (My husband’s house was not on either campus.) One is currently president (his girlfriend is in yet another sorority not represented in our family) and one is treasurer. </p>
<p>So while I am obviously biased as much as I try not to be, my family alone represents 8 different fraternities and sororities at 5 different colleges. My posts and views are thus collective, non-anecdotal, and represent experience across many Greek organizations. Do I speak for the entire Greek system? No way. Does having insight into so many organizations give me a pretty wholistic view? Absolutely. </p>
<p>@Pizzagirl @alh I so agree that Greek life is so much more than rush and it’s also what you make of it. It’s also not for everyone and that’s ok, too. But making things up chaps my hide, like you, @Pizzagirl. </p>
<p>“The sororities Pizzagirl describes sound like friendly groups of young women. The sororities at those southern schools with letters of recommendation and alumnae nixing pledges of the wrong color (or nixing any pledges) sound awful.”</p>
<p>I don’t mean to suggest that everything was perfect, because that would be a lie. There were certainly snotty people, and cattiness, and whatever entails when you have 18-22 yo women in clusters. (My D’s college doesn’t have sororities and they aren’t immune to that either.) </p>
<p>It’s just that some of the stuff described elsewhere is completely foreign to me. Letters of recs were nice but not necessary, alums were involved only in the hang-up-the-coats-and-pass-the-cookies not in terms of membership selection. </p>
<p>I would be lying if I said that the racial integration mirrored the campus at large, and I can certainly see why a black girl might want to join a black-only sorority and /or feel uncomfortable, but I can assure you that discussion of someone’s race / ethnicity / religion never happened and was completely irrelevant. </p>
<p>As I’ve mentioned before, we had a Hispanic president one year, and the year after I left, a black president, and no one thought twice. I just found / friended on Facebook a woman from my pledge class who I’d lost track of, who happens to be black. My husband’s house had a black president during the same time frame (mid 80’s). Some houses tended to be “more WASPy” or “more Jewish” or “more East Coast” or “more midwestern” or “more hard-core partier” than others, but there is a difference between like attracting like, and overt discrimination / rejection of someone else. S reports that his house has all different ethnicities / races / religions (though one does predominate, everyone’s welcome), as well as gay / straight, and it’s all treated as a “whatever.” So when I hear the “controversy” over pledging a black girl in the year 2014, sorry, it does make me roll my eyes and I hate that those systems seem to form the stereotype that the rest of us get judged by. </p>
<p>Overpusser - I feel the same. Among my immediate family (not including SILs and BILs), we represent 9 different houses on 8 different campuses, including private and public institutions in the NE, Midwest, South and Southwest. That by no means makes me an expert on Greek life, but it does afford me a pretty broad view. There are similarities and differences among them all. </p>
<p>To alh’s points (emphasis mine): “We had a girl in our sorority who wasn’t very “connected” as her family had moved to the state when she was in middle school. (snip) I know the fact her boyfriend came from a high status family.”</p>
<p>I think maybe that’s part of the difference when you’re talking about some of these state schools in the south where who your family is is of utmost importance, and schools that are drawing from a more broad geographic pool and where the concept of “who your family is” is pretty much meaningless.</p>
<p>Now, I’m not going to argue that if your parent is some kind of celebrity or major public figure, the houses won’t be competing for you - I bet all the frats at NU fell over themselves to woo Tom Hanks’ kid. But otherwise, there’s just no “status” to speak of. To the point of the OP - so your father is a neurosurgeon 500 miles away. Well, that’s nice, but otherwise unremarkable. </p>
<p>CF - I didn’t say they didn’t belong in a sorority. My comment was directed at the notion of hiring someone to help prepare you for rush. That to me seems over the top. I can’t imagine why anyone would need such a thing. Embrace who you are, if you are more socially awkward, don’t pin your hopes on the sorority that’s full of the extroverted cheerleader types. It’s okay to be quiet, reflective, not like making small talk. </p>
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<p>And here I add my eternal refrain (because PG and I have been having this conversation for about a million years now) that if you don’t like it, change it. We are all part of a whole. Those southern girls are your sisters too. Help them fix it. </p>
<p>Random lottery selection fixes it.</p>
<p>ETA: My kids generation are fourth generation greek. It’s a family tradition LOL</p>