<p>The truth of the matter is that there is probably some of the “go big” mentality in all of us. Human nature being what it is, people are attracted to prestige. Or more directly, they want what they PERCEIVE other people desire but have not been able to attain. BS selection is just one area of many where this comes into play. </p>
<p>Why do people prefer to live in Grosse Pointe, Greenwich or Gladwyne? The next town over is likely not all that much different. Why do some people prefer to drive a BMW, Mercedes or Porsche? Certainly they have done their research and know that the top 2 cars on the 2012 “most reliable” list were Toyotas. The mentality of prestige is deeply imbedded in our society and is not likely to change anytime soon. Some BS’s just have developed a cache perhaps due to some famous alumni and very good marketing. For a lot of people, that cache is important. To others, not so much. But more importantly, there are some for whom that “go big” school is actually the best fit.</p>
<p>But the bigger question is why do we get so worked up over OTHER people’s approach to BS selection, but could care less where they choose to live, what they drive or what their fashion choices are? I think the answer lies in the fact that this choice involves our children. The thought that another parent might look down upon a school that our child is attending just drives people crazy. And I think that is especially true because of the amount of effort it takes to gain admission to any of the top 20 BS’s. </p>
<p>I guess my point is that I think the chances of convincing anyone to change their trajectory with regard to the BS selection process are slim. The families applying are as unique as the BS’s themselves. I think the best we can do is be at peace with the choices our own families have made and be grateful that it all has worked out so well.</p>
<p>“Non- HADES or non-GLADCHEMMS schools are not the only schools with a monopoly on best fit for students.” Agreed. But they may be the only schools a student has a chance of getting into — AND provide a great education to boot.</p>
<p>The ONLY reason I get worked up about things is that I want as many kids as possible to receive good news on M10 (or M9 or whenever the date moves from year to year). </p>
<p>My advice (solicited or otherwise) is in service of this goal.</p>
<p>Anyone who is secure within himself will never “look down” on another’s school. That sort of thing is for small minds. </p>
<p>And, the last I heard the very fact of attending boarding school – aside from the “correctional” kind – brought with it that certain ‘cachet’ to which you alluded.</p>
<p>One of the things that I took away from Khan’s book on SPS, and presume is mostly true, and true for the other ACRONYM schools, is that these kids feel like they deserve to get in. They come to believe, slowly or quickly, by in large, that they earned their elite status. The implication is that others are not as deserving at the other schools. Rational reflection on the stats and general admissions picture, or reading on CC, should disabuse anybody of this notion. But, I do read the students on these threads almost uniformly stating that “our school is better” than that other school under consideration, you’d choose us if you had the chance. The idea of a “good fit” is not mutually exclusive with “I’m excellent and that’s why I go to the best”, and lip service (at least) is always given to the notion that applicants should seek a good fit. It’s just that the true picture is easily subverted, for both kids and adults, into the notion that everybody gets what they deserve. Considering how sound their education is supposed to be, seems to me that seniors at ACRONYM schools should have a more accurate world view, i.e., individuals do not always get what they “deserve” on fields that are not nearly as “level” as people assume that they are. (The greatest impediment to a more perfect meritocracy, I think, is the role of money in our market-driven society; increasingly, as Michael Sandel notes, we’ve lost the common good as a driver of resource allocation, policy decisions, etc.)</p>
<p>Just out of curiosity, I looked at the chances board–where I never go–and to my surprise, most students seemed to be applying to at least one school that had a reasonable admit. rate. So I do think the message is getting out there.</p>
<p>At the same time–and at the risk of beating a dead horse–I think it’s unfair to hop on to a thread asking those who choose a Go Big or Go Home strategy what they consider big, and then beat them up for it. Go Home is the viable safety/wider net school in this saying. </p>
<p>I can see, clearly, reasons why people would apply only to Andover and Exeter and the like–reasons that have nothing to do with their Ivy admit rates or prestige in the eyes of the general public. I offered my family earlier as an example of that, giving three reasons–but there are lots of others, relating to things like school size, diversity, setting, etc. So while it might be “ignorant presumptuousness” in some cases that causes people to apply only to Andover or Exeter, I think it’s equally presumptuous to assume that blind elitism is always what drives people. </p>
<p>(Man, I’m just never going to light up the page with green squares with posts like these, am I?)</p>
<p>Considering that a lesser known school will cost pretty much the same as a very well known prestigious school, I think it is a rational decision to choose the more prestigious one. If Campbell’s tomato soup cost the same as the store brand tomato soup, most people will instinctively reach for the Campbell’s soup. </p>
<p>But just be aware that by turning your nose up at anything besides that handful of schools ACRONYN schools, you could be missing a spectacular opportunity in term of having the best possible experience at school, and in terms of FA. Some of the excellent stealth-name schools will actually give more FA than the blingy-name schools.</p>
<p>Agree with GMT–FA is generous at many schools without the blingy endowment of A and E (though, for us, must say that E was most generous) For us, actually, sports were the greatest narrower of school choice. But that’s definitely atypical. My point is, most people are atypical. </p>
<p>Still, no sooner did I post then I hopped over to the Parents Board and read the thread about top school to top college which sums up exactly what all of you are saying. So. Sigh. Maybe you are right. But, you know, most parent who stick on these boards have firm, healthy, and varying opinions of what makes a school Big–so I’m going to assume that those who are in it only for the name are in the minority. Probably a naive assumption that comes from living in a state where most people think Exeter is a school for wayward boys.</p>
<p>Neato: I’m going to tip your scales just for coming back. :-)</p>
<p>Kahn’s book? I have just finished it and it is more a book about his unresolved psychopathology than anything else. Other than a description of the physical setting, it seemed to me that he missed the essence of boarding school both as a student and as “teacher”-- if one could call him that. A much better study --which makes many of the same points but without the snarky quality of Kahn-- is “The Best of the Best” by Gaztambide-Fernandez (HUP). I really hate throwing books away, (having far too many on shelves, tables and ,alas, the floor) but Kahn got placed in recycling --I wouldn’t even resell it on Amazon.</p>
<p>Any parent who sends her or his child to a school–or college for that matter–merely because of the “name” will be sorely disappointed. And will be doing the child a major disservice.</p>
<p>One of my hobby horses is the importance of “fit”–regardless of supposed “reputation.” The best school for one’s child is the one that fits the child: academically, emotionally, athletically and socially. I have seen too many children leave a school before graduation unhappy and in more than one case, broken, because he or she was in a school that the parent thought was “the best” but was all wrong for the kid. Gladwell’s recent book “Blink” is spot on regarding how decisions are actually made (hint–it isn’t rational–not done with a pro/con check list)–and such decisions are remarkably “correct” in the sense that it predicts “fit” quite well.</p>
<p>Private boarding school costs upwards of $45,000/child/year (and rising). For many parents this educational product and service is a major life purchase. Parents and their “non trust funded” children will increasing seek value for this investment and choice may not be limited to any boarding school but include local private day and magnet school options both child and parent would be happy at. Many parents and children will winnow down their final school list (after extensive research, vetting and visits) to schools that may include a few boarding, private day and public options based on aptitude, interests, extracurricular skill set/offerings and purchase power. This gets to the issue of “fit” which is a two way street in which the applicant doesn’t always hold all the cards in hand come March. After their research is done, there are many parents and children for whom admission to private school X, Y, or Z would be worth prying them away from excellent local private day or public magnet school options. And they have no interest in boarding school A, B, or C and would not even waste their time scouring the A to Z boarding school landscape due to diminishing and poor value for their investment and sacrifice. Some simply do not see any value in paying $45,000/year for it and are not prepared to shell out those bucks. For some, the only boarding school worth attending is the one attended by 3 generations of fathers. So be it. What is valuable is in the eye of the beholder. And that’s no laughing matter.</p>
<p>GMT, I would also add that even at full pay A and E are actually likely to be less expensive than many other schools due to endowments. The year we looked there was a $10,000 per year cost difference between the highest priced school on our list and A/E. Over 4 years that is $40,000 which = almost 1 year of college tuition, a nice car, or even a down payment on a house.</p>
<p>@etondad: I don’t know that I’d characterize Shamus Khan’s book as THAT badD…in fact, I’d say (as with most things) the truth lies somewhere in between his portrait of SPS and that of students/alums/administration.</p>
<p>We often accuse parents/students/alum on this board of being “boosters” for the school with which they are affiliated…with little to no counterpoint. I see the Khan book as just one part of seeing the “other side” of the BS story.</p>
<p>All this talk about “fit” is specious reasoning when one takes into account that it is the school that is already well-formed and less pliable (if you will) than the student. Fit is about size and shape – something which is exactly what the student is undergoing, changing from one size and shape to another --voila, adolescence!</p>
<p>Conversely, the school is way past that stage and is by and large “formed”. An analogy might be that the school is the mold and the student is the liquid poured into the mold. Once solidified, “fit” will indeed be achieved.</p>
<p>The question is not so much - How well does this school ‘fit’ my child? but closer to - Is this the right school to ‘mold’ my child?</p>
<p>It isn’t his conclusions that I take issue (although I do) here… it is his snarkiness as I put it. The passage in the book where he decided to stage a protest on the senior couch as it was a symbol of hierarchy that was imbued into the minds of these students-- so he convinced another teacher to joining him and coaxed some underclassmen to sit on the couch too. The senior came over-- Kahn is all excited-- here will be the confrontation that his revolutionary heart has been desiring. No-- the senior say nothing nor do they give any opprobrium to the younger Paulies. Instead they look quizzically at Kahn with the look of “why are you here?” </p>
<p>What on earth made Kahn act this way? He, since he has motives as pure as the driven snow, never ever considered that a place that students claimed as their own was being invaded by faculty-- by adults thereby removing one of the sanctuaries they had. When I read that I thought “What a putz.”</p>
<p>Again, the point Kahn tries to make are wonderfully made in “The Best of the Best”. It is a strong indictment of elite boarding schools as breeders of privilege, but it is done with real sociologic research. Kahn forgets the first rule of being embedded-- he hates the group into which he is embedded-- he did as a student and did when he stepped back as an adult. </p>
<p>Im sure his publishers saw his book not as a sociological treatise but a chance for a juicy expose-- alas, they got neither.</p>
<p>Its important to distinguish between a prep school that is a perfect fit and one that is a better or best fit. </p>
<p>Parents understandably emphasize the importance of fit because we wish to protect our children from the inevitable vagaries and disappointments of high school life. However, no prep school perfectly matches any student. Hence, seeking a perfect fit prep school is an illusory endeavor. Its also an unnecessary and unproductive source of angst.</p>
<p>Given the power of human intuition, a student can determine that one school is a better fit in comparison with another school or the best fit in relation to many schools. However, intuition often proves imperfect and infallible. And, the range of choices a student makes are limited by the admission acceptances that student receives.</p>
<p>Long story made short, fit is an important, albeit limited, concept a useful tool, not a panacea.</p>
<p>Perhaps a better concept is: “Where is the school environment that offers appropriate challenges, AND the resilience training to respond to setbacks?” I do a lot of work with professionals in educational and health services contexts, and resilience is the buzzword of the day, but it’s equally appropriate to the boarding school mentality. BS are predicated on the forced (read: Puritan) learning of resilience, but it is only recently that educational philosophies have begun to consider how best to teach resiliency and openly discuss it as a critical life skill. So…for me, the extent to which the faculty and admin of a school recognize and advocate for the dual values of challenge (intellectual, physical, social) AND resiliency training goes a long way toward telling me whether or not this is an appropriate molding environment for the kid I want to help usher into a healthy adulthood.</p>