In a way, maybe its good it happened on the first date. If your daughter’s religious views/style don’t mesh with the date’s, better to know early on and not waste time. Maybe his intention was just that if his religion is something that is very central to his life.
Deb, it is a little unusual to me if he “asked if they could say grace”. Was he trying to feel her religion out? Was he “showing off”? Might he have just taken a few seconds on his own to pray quietly - she would have realized and given him his space. Did they say a rote prayer or did he like say he was “thankful for their time together” or whatever??
Interesting topic. When my kids were little we always said grace before dinner. Somewhere along the line we lost that. We say grace when on the holidays and anytime extended family is together. H and I were raised Catholic as were my kids - we’re certainly not devout now though!
I don’t think a kid prays on a date to “show off.” I think the kid is living out his faith. What would he gain by a public display of his devotion? To win her heart by his piety? Doesn’t make sense to me.
The bottom line is whether your D wishes to date him again.
I don’t think we can take the “show off” question so literally. OP is just asking for some help understanding the practice. In some areas, public prayer is an attestation, testimony, a public declaration. Personal faith, public evidence.
@salvemater:
Thanks, it was what I thought too, that they meant protestant (and possibly born again Christian, since many people I have known who have gone the born again route feel they weren’t Christian before they were ‘born again’). I am pretty familiar with the history of the church, and without turning this into a history of the church thread, things like the Trinity only became dogma in the 4th century (there were epic battles over what was to become scripture, as well as battles over what the faith was, the Trinitarian view of Christ was promulgated during the first century, but did not become standard Doctrine until the Nicae Conference in the early 4th century, I believe transubstatiation existed from an early time, but there were disputes about just what that meant, and I believe around 1215 the church finally formally defined what it meant, that the wine and the wafer become the blood and body of Christ during the blessing by the priest. ).
The organized church didn’t truly consolidated until Costantine in the 4th century, so it may be only 1100 years or so lol.
This is truely fascinating to me, thanks.
And yes D will go on another date with him. Guess he had lots of good qualities 
I didn’t get that he was showing off, it was who he is. And his faith is important and not a obligation. Which is nice.
@musicprnt thanks, sorry I was being very general in my post, however, my point is that there exists written evidence of Catholic Christianity since the beginning of time AD, the chronology or its evolution notwithstanding. Thus, when folks distinguish “Christians” from “Catholics,” it’s ironic and shows me how much Catholicism is misunderstood so - just wanted to clarify it somewhat without bogging down in theology.
For the record, doctrinally speaking, Catholics are “born again” through the Sacrament of Baptism in the name of the Holy Trinity. [Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit-John 3:5]
Such an interesting conversation. We are not a religious family and thus, never say grace. The first time I saw someone saying grace in a restaurant was many years ago in Williamsburg, VA while on vacation. I’ve never seen that again! In my 60+years, in all the dinners I’ve shared with friends, in Canada or in the U.S., no one has ever expressed an interest in saying grace, with one exception. While having dinner at a neighbor’s home in SC where we have our second home, the host and hostess said a very long grace. It surprised me but it was their home, and they certainly have every right to do so. These are the only instances in my adult life.
I’m interested to know why it is that some of you only say grace at dinner but not at other meals. I’m truly curious. Thank you all for sharing your customs.
@alwaysamom in Catholicism the term grace just means thanksgiving, small “t.” And saying grace, goes back to the Jewish custom of giving thanks to God for our meals, an Old Testament custom. Thus, we as Catholics follow that tradition, after all, Jesus was a Jew - “…taking bread he gave thanks to God in the sight of them all and when he had broken it he began to eat” (I Tim.,3:5) So it’s a tradition, not doctrinal, and like all traditions, different folks do it differently.
Some only say grace, at large meals, while the very orthodox will say it before AND after. The early Church father, Tertullian (c. 155 AD) wrote: “We do not recline at a banquet before prayer be first tasted—in like manner prayer puts an end to the feast”
Even though I attended 2 Catholic elementary schools from grades 1-6 and grew up in a neighborhood with a large Catholic presence(Irish and Hispanic), the first time I saw folks say grace out loud outside the home on a regular basis was when I visited some relatives who are fundamentalist evangelicals in the NE/West Coast and neighbors of Mississippi relatives*.
And most of those fundamentalist evangelicals do feel the need to say grace loudly and publicly whether at a restaurant or even when they are visiting a relative/friend who aren’t particularly religious/observant. Worse, they WILL ACTUALLY TAKE UMBRAGE if their “offer” to say grace in the home of the non-observant/non-religious host is politely refused as happened with a few non-religious relatives/friends/acquaintances which sparked relational rifts.
To those fundamentalist evangelical relatives/neighbors of Mississippi relatives, they don’t subscribe to the “their house, their customs” regarding their insistence on loudly saying grace in the homes of the non-observant/non-religious hosts.
Due to such experiences, I have much more respect for religiously observant folks who take polite refusals of non-observant/non-religious hosts to say grace out loud with good grace(pun intended) and/or say their personal grace in silence without asking others as embodied in this quote by @NJSue:
- Mississippi relatives aren't religious in the least and find some of the religious observances/attitudes expressed by some fundamentalist evangelical relatives and many of their neighbors towards them to be a bit on the overbearing side.
One example of this was how those religious neighbors felt the need to lecture them about the dangers of “excess drinking” when their standards of what constitutes “excess” is practically the imbibing of any alcoholic beverages…even on festive occasions like weddings and other religious ceremonies. By their standards, I’d be considered an “excessive drinker” because I enjoy an occasional drink at a musical venue or festive occasion despite the fact I seldom keep any alcohol at home because I rarely drink outside of social/festive occasions.
This is also something they sometimes use to puff themselves up vis a vis Catholics.
When the kids were younger (although we still have one sort of “little”), we said a short prayer–not rote–before most if not all meals. That tapered off to dinners, and now we only do it occasionally (maybe because we eat out for dinner most of the time and we rarely pray before meals in public–but I think it was tapering off even before we started eating out so much). We always pray before holiday and birthday meals, even in public (unless we forget, in which case we pray an after- or even mid-meal prayer, lol). Sometimes, we have prayed in public, which happened more years ago than now, but never ostentatiously.
I understand how people might interpret some praying in public to be “showing off.” I’ve been with people where the person praying in public has prayed in an excessively loud voice, seeming to pray for the benefit of those around us, not just for us; they seem to also be using the prayer as a call to conversion for other people in the vicinity. That’s uncomfortable for me.
I’m comfortable if people want to pray out loud or to themselves in public or at private events; in fact, I think it’s nice, and I’ll pray silently or out loud if that’s what we decide to do. I just don’t want to make a scene about it, and I’m also ok if it’s not mentioned or done at all.
Grace before supper at home - not other meals unless we are all “dining” together (a family breakfast or we are all eating the same lunch - not often). Never in public unless it is a special event
We are Protestant and have said the same grace for dinner at home every night since our children were toddlers. Our shared grace is now a family tradition that bonds us when we are reunited from afar. My husband often says a silent grace before he eats other meals, but I rarely do. Family gatherings always have a prayer before the meal, usually offered by my H or one of the other men at the table. (Not sure why it is always a male - maybe patriarchal tradition, or maybe because they are the most comfortable speakers?) If there are folks from outside of the family, the prayer will lean non-denominational and thanks will be lifted up for their presence with us at the table. Now that our eldest has moved several states away, if the four of us are together and dine out we will often quietly say our grace together before eating. S lives in the south, and I am much more comfortable doing it there than I am in our mid-Atlantic home state (but we have done it in both places.). Down south I have seen both families and groups (a youth sports team with parents, and a table of emergency responders) say a blessing before eating in a restaurant. In today’s fractured, hurting world, I am always struck when seeing others taking a moment to express gratitude. I would feel that way regardless of their religion or ethnicity.
I was not brought up in a religious family though we went to churches for Christmas or Easter occasionally. One of my brothers became a serious Episcopalian. They sing grace at dinner. It’s very sweet. I always liked the graces we sang at Girl Scout camp too, but I wonder if they still do them. The ones I remember “Johnny Appleseed” and the “Scottish Grace” both refer to “The Lord”. As a non-believer I’m always a bit uncomfortable when someone puts me in the position of having to participate in grace by holding hands or going on at great length. I’ve very, very, very rarely seen anyone saying grace at a restaurant anywhere in the northeast or NYC area.
We hold hands as a family (and sometimes with close friends) when we say grace. I love the connection, intimacy, and shared gratefulness that is present when we do this.
My daughter is an Episcopal priest. We say grace at family gatherings and gatherings with church friends. We are respectful when we are joined by friends of other faiths, but no one seems to mind a moment of expressing gratitude. My daughter often will ask that someone else offer a prayer of thanks, since we tend to always look to her as “the pro”.
In Ca. I was raised as a practicing Catholic, we did not say grace. I don’t recall grace being said at any of my friends. I converted to Judaism as an adult. We don’t say a prayer before eating unless I’ve made a sabbath dinner or a holiday meal. In that case we recite the traditional blessings over lighting candles, wine and bread. When the kids were young we added a blessing over the children.
At Thanksgiving we gather with family and friends and say what we are thankful for but not a formal grace.
On rare occasions I see people pray before eating in a restaurant but it’s rare. I also have dined at friends who are strong in their Christian faiths and we don’t say grace. I don’t know what they do as a family. Most of my Jewish friends are reform and they don’t regularly say blessings before eating. I assume orthodox say a blessing before eating at each meal.
I would not have a problem saying grace at someone’s house if I am a guest. I think my D would not object to a date saying grace but it would get her to thinking if in the long term they are a match.
Most importantly did it bother your D?
We grew up saying grace at dinner (now only at my dad’s home) and am verycomfortable with it. I have some “hand holding friends” and that doesn’t bother me either. I’m pretty open. Never did it in a restaurant (except maybe one Thanksgiving dinner where it just felt very appropriate with so much family present).
But praying before a meal on a first date at a restaurant?
There is a huge difference between friends/family and a first date.
Seems indicative of a very strict mindset when it comes to religion. Great if both partners are on the same page with the same values. Otherwise, not so much.
Religion divides don’t bode well for relationships.
I’d have her keep her eyes wide open. Sometimes it’s little stuff that tells the real story.
Not a religious family so not a problem here. We don’t pray and prayer has never been a part of my family. My in-laws are devout Catholics but I’ve never seen them pray before meals. (Mr R doesn’t remember grace being a part of his upbringing either).
Mr R’s extended family though says a very, VERY long grace before each and every meal whether we’re at their house or anywhere else where we’ve gathered. It gets to the point where it’s uncomfortable for me because of what is often said (politics often comes in…) but I just stay silent and wait.
I haven’t been in a position where I’m supposed to hold hands with anyone for a blessing, but I’d personally decline unless it was just Mr R’s. Several reasons for this and only a handful having to do with my atheism.
As for the date, I agree with others here. If it bothers her, this is probably not a relationship worth pursuing. Even among my most religious friends, they pray silently before meals. If she’s comfortable with it, then by all means, continue.
Faith is important to my niece and she goes to church for mass most Sunday’s (or Satirday nite if she’s unavailable on Sunday). The men she dated had to be willing to attend mass with her, I believe. She’s engaged and her Fiancé plans to convert to Catholicism. When we’ve dined with them, none of us said grace except if it was a huge extended family gathering or a holiday gathering.