Fordham?

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>How well is Fordham perceived? Especially when looking for jobs in private NYC firms right after law school? And just in general? Because according to this link (below) on their website it seems as if the salary is pretty comparable to some T14 schools. If I were accepted to Fordam would most people recommend I go?</p>

<p>[Fordham</a> University School of Law - Career Planning Center](<a href=“http://law.fordham.edu/ihtml/cp-2JDProStud_employstat.ihtml?id=148]Fordham”>http://law.fordham.edu/ihtml/cp-2JDProStud_employstat.ihtml?id=148)</p>

2

<p>My impression is that its reputation is well below Columbia and NYU, and somewhat above Brooklyn and Cardozo. The salaries and percentage of grads employed also looks somewhat in between, from the link you posted.</p>

<p>You would likely have to have a higher class rank at Fordham than at T14 schools to be considered for some jobs. A lot of people assume that they will get better grades at lower-ranked law schools but this is not always the case–the courses are often quite different at the two types of schools (T14s are more academic…it’s like teaching you how to be a professor, or a judge; lower-ranked schools teach more of “this is the law. this is how to do [X legal task].”)</p>

<p>Also if you are interested in public interest, higher-ranked schools often have better loan repayment programs. On the other hand, you might have fewer loans if you went to a place which gave you a merit scholarship…</p>

<p>Finally, it looks like most Fordham alums are in the NY area. This is good in the sense that there will be lots of alumni connections there, but bad in the sense that the reputation might be worse outside of NY, and there will be lots of competition for NY jobs.</p>

3

<p>Fordham is ranked in the top 25 by US News and World. Their median starting salary is well into the 115 to 125k a year range. That, in my opinion, renders it a damn good school.</p>

4

<p>Fordham’s tight, go for it.</p>

5

<p>Fordham is well below NYU and Columbia, but significantly above the rest of the other NYC schools. Their placement into clerkships is very good, they have roughly the same percentage of students getting clerkships as harvard, and their academic standing is rising. Fordham is still in the upper bracket where you learn theory rather than practice, and many of their professors either teach at other higher ranked schools or have moved onto positions at other schools (Columbia’s new evidence professor came from Fordham). Also, because it is in NYC, the recruitment for big law is very good. You obviously have to be in a higher percentage of the class at Fordham than at Harvard to get the same job, but it’s still quite a good school that will leave all of the opportunities open.</p>

6

<p>Stacy</p>

<p>It would appear your comment is not based on facts but only impression. With almost 1,000 law schools in the country, being ranked 25 puts Fordham law in a very small, elite group. As for salaries, it is ranked in the upper 10% for graduates. I would not say it is “Well below” Columbia and NYU, just somewhat below. Including Cornell, these four NY law schools are in the top 25% of US law schools. Cardozo and Brooklyn law are barely in the top 100, if they are at all, so to say that Fordham is “somewhat above” is very off the mark.
A more accurate comparison is to say Fordham is somewhat below Columbia and NYU and well above all other NYC law schools. This is borne out by actual rankings.</p>

7

<p>I live and practice in NYC. Fordham is WAY about Cardozo and Brooklyn. It places very well in NYC and its alumni are rabid supporters. There are a fair number of Fordham grads among the federal judiciary here too, and at least a couple almost always hire Fordham clerks. </p>

<p>As far as I know, the only area in which Fordham teaches “black letter law,”
which is what I think Stacy means, is in state procedure. Although I would NOT choose Fordham over the T-14 because of it, I’d probably choose it over any other school below the top 14 if you are sure you want to be in NYC. The CPLR --Civil Practice Law and Rules–which govern NY court practice are pretty arcane. Having learned them by taking the course makes it a LOT easier to pass the NY bar. (Everyone who hasn’t already been exposed to the CPLR spends a lot bar-prep time cramming it into their skulls.)</p>

8

<p>I think words like “somewhat” and “well” are pretty flexible–it looks like we all agree that Fordham is between NYU and Columbia on one hand and Brooklyn and Cardozo on the other, and I think you can get a good education at any of them.</p>

<p>Although I generally agree with RamRay and Jonri, I have a few gentle critiques of RamRay’s statement:</p>

<p>a) The fact that “As for salaries, [Fordham] is ranked in the upper 10% for graduates” is somewhat misleading because most grads stay in New York, where salaries (and the cost of living!) are higher than most other places in the country. For example, UT Austin is ranked higher than Fordham, but it may well have lower starting salaries (I don’t know; their career services password-protects this info) since firms in Texas pay less.</p>

<p>b) While my response was based on “only impression” (and I noted this when I wrote it!), saying that rankings are a better source of information is unfair–especially since 40% of US news rankings are based on peer assessments from law professors and other legal professionals, who rank the schools based on–what else–their own impressions. Reputation matters for rankings and for getting a job after law school.</p>

<p>c) While the rankings put Fordham closer to NYU and Columbia than Brooklyn and Cardozo, the GPA and LSAT scores of entering classes put Fordham more in the middle. For example, Cardozo/Brooklyn’s medians were about 3.5/163 and NYU/Columbia’s around 3.72/171.5. Fordham’s was 3.62/165…so much closer to the lower-ranked schools on LSAT and slightly closer to the higher-ranked schools on GPA (source: [Graph</a> of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT](<a href=“Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT Forum - Top Law Schools”>Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT Forum - Top Law Schools)) </p>

<p>d) Fordham is also solidly between Columbia/NYU and Cardozo/Brooklyn in terms of placement at large law firms. Columbia ranked first on this measure NYU was fourth, and Fordham fell from the top 20 in 2008. Fordham’s numbers on this are closer to Cardozo and Brooklyn’s (in the 25-33% range) than NYU/Columbia (in the 50-60% range). Also, the same chart ([Employment</a> trends for law school grads](<a href=“http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1207904900045]Employment”>http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1207904900045)) shows that over 10% of Columbia and NYU students do a clerkship after graduating; Fordham’s clerkship numbers look to be smaller than either of these schools (and smaller than Brooklyn’s) and more similar to Cardozo (of course this doesn’t take into account what courts the grads clerk in–I couldn’t find info on that).</p>

<p>e) there aren’t “almost 1,000 law schools in the country.” There are 194 ABA accredited ones and a few with provisional accreditation. </p>

<p>I don’t want people to think I’m piling on RamRay or on Fordham. I think it’s a good school. I strongly considered attending law school in New York and while Fordham wasn’t on my list, I really really liked Brooklyn. So this is just intended as a clarification, not a diss.</p>

9

<p>Whoa Whoa Whoa, RamRay, calm down. u say that “Cardozo and Brooklyn law are barely in the top 100”. This is not correct in any shape or form. Cardozo is a very respectable school in NY and is ranked around 55 and Brooklyn is ranked around 65. Both schools offer average starting salaries in the 110k plus range for private sector jobs.</p>

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<p>lol. Can we please have a list (preferably a ranked list) of these 1,000 law schools? I’d like to see the ~800 or so you’re forced to invent.</p>

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<p>Spanks is right, there are only 193 ABA accredited Law Schools in the US</p>

12

<p>It’s likely the best law school, immediately after the T-14, when it comes to top law firm placement and academic quality.</p>

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<p>Though Fordham is ranked in the mid to low twenties, it would have been my first choice had I not gotten into a T14 school for exactly these reasons.</p>

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<p>If u want a job in NYC in the private sector, Fordham is ur best option in NYC after NYU/Colombia/Cornell. Cardozo would come next, followed by Brooklyn then St. Johns, then Hofstra</p>