Foreign Gig Fiasco

Parent Cafe
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<p>Sounds like a heavenly experience–not quite the ryokan but still fun.</p>

<p>My tip would be to get the email address of the bathouse and email them to find out where the boys can store their instruments. Or…The other option is to call t he second night hotel and ask them if they will ‘pre-store’ their instruments. Name drop Juiliiard all around the place–I am sure your son will be very well treated. If it’s one thing I know about Koreans–they love fine music–and musicians.</p>

<p>Now binx, can you please send my son a telepathic message to email his mum?</p>

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<p>binx- I’ve got a few thoughts looking at this from a “business” relationship and what a developing musician might not know. </p>

<p>A contract is binding. It should never be signed unless it is fully understood. Negotiations and clarifications need to be done prior to signing. Do not rely on what was agreed upon verbally to actually appear within the contract. Mutually agreed changes need to be added as signed amendments. The more involved the terms, obligations, and responsibilities are for all parties, the more critical it is to make sure all the t’s are dotted and i’s are crossed on paper.</p>

<p>Penalty clauses are a double edge sword… if only one side faces penalties, it’s an unfair agreement, but binding once signed. There should be penalties implied for either party negotiated early on. It should be a quid pro quo. (No first night hotel included for example)</p>

<p>Performing as a small ensemble has special considerations, and it’s something for your son to think about down the road. If this is an existing long term, fairly active ensemble, then they need to come to a mutual agreement amongst themselves as to who does what… one may do promotion, another the travel, one may do publicity, one can keep records, etc. Assignments should be based on the respective strengths of the involved parties, or rotated if necessary but it should be understood beforehand who is responsible for what areas. If the ensemble is large (probably larger than a sextet) or performs frequently it may well make sense to farm the business/logistics out to a hired gun.</p>

<p>Whatever is done, it should be done in a professional manner. BassDad’s point of breakdown of communication is exactly right from my reading as it appears the negotiations, travel arrangements were not handled in a professional manner. Period. It seems a case of “we’ve done it before, we’ll handle it, and keep you posted” or “we’re involved with the organization, we have the contacts”.</p>

<p>This gig doesn’t involve driving from Boston to Providence. It should have been planned accordingly, and people were too far out of the loop to be comfortable.</p>

<p>It could be a great experience for all, or they may end up never speaking to each other. Whatever happens, your son should know a bit more now of the business side of performing, and strive to avoid having similar repeat experiences by seeing first hand how not to do things.</p>

<p>Distance, language barriers, security for his person and his instrument are prime concerns. If nothing else, get an international calling card before he leaves or he can rent his own cell. It seems like there may be one all controlling entity who feels she’s in charge. </p>

<p>Good luck to him. My fingers are crossed.</p>

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<p>Excellent post, Violadad. Thanks for the good wishes, too. And yes, I meant to comment on BassDad’s diagnosis of communication problems. I do believe that is part of it. I think they just have no concept of this trip being intimidating to us.</p>

<p>I just finished having a conversation with my S about what he/we have learned. Much of it is what you just said. </p>

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<li> He’s learned that he needs to take any contract very seriously. And also, to run from it if there is a great deal of pressure involved. From the get-go, he’s had concerns about this contract. The other 4 kids signed it the day it arrived, and badgered my S to sign. He refused to sign for over a month. It caused some hard feelings, but he held his ground. (The contract, as initially written, was a change in dates from what had been agreed upon, and they conflicted with my S’s summer festival. He would not sign until they promised him they would fly him home early. They kept telling him they’d work that out AFTER he signed.)</li>
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<p>Although he wasn’t tough enough to hold out for every single detail, he is glad he insisted on the details he did. </p>

<p>We decided today that the cost of a lawyer in looking over contracts is probably going to be a necessity in the future.</p>

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<li> This quintet will not continue after this trip. My S has fulfilled and then some his chamber music requirements, and has no desire to continue with this group. It is a piano quintet, and there’s not a lot of music for that anyway. They are only performing one piece - the Mozart Piano Quintet - together. Then they are each also performing solos. His goal is to just get through this week.</li>
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<p>But he has learned that if he ever does anything as a group, he will insist up front on having a strong, organized leader, and some accountability.</p>

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<li> He has learned that if anyone ever says, “Just trust me,” that he should run the other way, very fast. We’ve had a lot of discussions about what trust entails.</li>
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<p>BassDad pointed out that all the details of the trip seem to have fallen into place. This is very true. I and my S both feel very comfortable with the arrangements at this point. The only bad part is the tension. </p>

<p>My H ran out just now to buy a calling card. I also asked my S to send an email if he finds an Internet cafe. He is not very good about staying in touch, but knows we will need to hear he is okay, given all the ins and outs of this trip.</p>

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<p>Binx, Thanks for posting this. It alerts all of us to the potential issues with contracts, especially international ones. DS, the musician, is not a detail person. This experience will be related to him…it’s important information. My guess is that this trip will be fine, and I’m looking forward to hearing about it on the “other end”.</p>

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<p>Binx, if your son is going to be a musician and perform many gigs, paying a lawyer to look at every contract probably will be a losing proposition financially. Most of these contrcts will probably not be done by professionals. DS just needs to learn what’s important to him and that you won’t be bailing him out for any mistakes. Most of all, at 21 he needs to be speaking for himself. Getting your opinion on the contract is one thing, letting you get involved in the negotiations was a bit unprofessional on his part which may have offended the young lady. I know it’s hard, but let go mom for his sake and yours!</p>

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<p>No, I was not involved in the contract negotiations. S was in NYC at the time of signing, and we are in GA - we only knew what we discussed over the phone. He has never signed a contract before, and understandably wanted guidance. I didn’t even see the contract until today. And he does not even have a signed copy in his possession! </p>

<p>What I did today was email the student’s mother, who is chaperoning the group. Actually, I was responding to HER (the mother’s) email that was sent TO THE PARENTS offering to answer questions. The kids in the group had already asked these questions, but didn’t get answers from the daughter. </p>

<p>I asked for a copy of his e-ticket and itinerary, so that we would know the flights were definite. They changed them last week! He has a one-way ticket to NYC, and I didn’t want him flying up there only to find out the flights had been changed again. (The contract says he would have a second contract concerning the transportation issues. That second contract never came. Asking for the e-ticket to confirm dates seems pretty mild in comparison.)</p>

<p>I asked her for details about where they were staying the first night. When travelling to a foreign country, I think it is reasonable for the folks back home to have a clue where they might be.</p>

<p>I asked if the work visas had come through that they applied for. I knew they’d been applied for, but never heard anything further.</p>

<p>Instead of the mother answering my email, I got a defensive phone call from the daughter, and it went downhill from there.</p>

<p>So I don’t think it’s a matter of me letting go. This is the day before he leaves and it is the first contact I’ve had with any of them, and it was at their initiative.</p>

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<p>Sorry Binx, I misunderstood. During school I made music to make money. We signed lots of contracts not having a clue what we were doing but we soon learned what our bottom line was. No parents got involved. We went up the learning and negotiating curve very fast so don’t worry!</p>

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<p>Hopefully your first contract wasn’t in Korea! I think my S would like to get his feet wet on a few stateside contracts before attempting anything else internationally any time soon. Of course, he’s had plenty of solo gig contracts on a local level, which are basically, show up, play this long, and we’ll pay you this much. This one was a bit more complicated. He’s never had to deal with anything where he got other than just an hourly rate.</p>

<p>In my list of what he’s learned, I forgot one: There is no free lunch! The trip was presented in the beginning as “all expenses” - come help out a good cause. Then it became hotel and plane ticket only. Since then, fees have been accumulating slow but steady. I just read that Korea has an exit tax. Wonder what that will be? It’s still a good deal, in that he’ll be visiting Korea for maybe $500, assuming all goes well. (The kids who are staying longer will pay more.) He’ll play 4(?) concerts, and do a bit of sightseeing. I hope he will have some good experiences and make some great music. Maybe he’ll even remember to take some pictures.</p>

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<p>Our first was with a cruise line, talk about cheap labor!</p>

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<p>If you’ re really in a bind–I know a couple of Koreans in Seoul who might take in a couple of Juilliard musicians in a pinch–but I think the Jim Jil Bang sounds cool. One of my contacts is the sister of one of my best friends. She’s the CEO of a very large corporation. Her nephew is a very gifted cellist.</p>

<p>I agree wholeheartedly about the word ‘trust’. I was wild when my boys used it on me. Trust is something you demonstrate with your actions, IMO.</p>

<p>What kind of music did you play Mary? Or, are you a singer?</p>

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<p><a href=“Travelers' Health | CDC”>Travelers' Health | CDC;

<p>Is your son immunized, especially for malaria? Many immunizations are recommended (not required) for South Korea</p>

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<p>When our D was 19, she took off for Korea to teach English for a year (though it ended up being only 3 months). I’ll admit that I did pitch a fit that she had no idea who these people were that were offering the job and she was heading off to a foreign country to be picked up at the airport by perfect strangers. I did some research and it turned out that I knew someone who had moved to Korea to work in a Christian ministry there and he knew the prospective employers and vouched for them.</p>

<p>On the one hand, S. Korea is a very safe country. Their crime rate is low and they like Americans. It’s probably one of the safest places for an American to visit. On the other hand, my D learned that Koreans have a different understanding of contracts. Also, they didn’t seem to understand why she would have a problem signing a contract that was written in Korean! </p>

<p>One misunderstanding came when she wasn’t fulfilling their expectations for the number of classes she would teach. They wanted her teaching 20 classes per week, yet they were assigning her classes that sometimes had 2-3 hours travel time between them. She had agreed to work 40 hours per week, but they felt that the travel time shouldn’t count towards her 40 hours.</p>

<p>They ended up firing the teachers and going out of business (a common occurrence with Korean English schools). We felt lucky that they honored their commitment to provide her return ticket home.</p>

<p>Anyway, even though I was <em>very</em> nervous about that whole situation, I am glad that H and I stood back and let her do it. (Well, I say “let her do it”. She was going to do it, and we couldn’t have stopped her.) She learned a ton and it was a great experience for her.</p>

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<p>Timely, the US Embassy in Seoul actually has a line item on their tips page, with some warnings for those coming to teach English. It apparently is a pretty big problem!</p>

<p>Salud, no - no immunizations. He leaves in 4 hours, so it’s too late for anything. We did nothing to help him with this trip, and he didn’t know enough to seek these things out on his own. He’s facing this trip with some dread, but it’s too late now. He is a forgiving and resilient guy, so he’ll make the best of it. I regret that we had to spend his last day home dealing with this girl.</p>

<p>Mary, my S made the comment the other day that he’d love to play on a cruise ship someday. I’d love to hear your “lessons learned.”</p>

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<p>Binx, my son went to Mexico and I told him months in advance to get a Hep A vaccine, which takes two weeks to kick in. One week before leaving, of course he hadn’t, but did one week pre and was offered some protection. South Korea has the longest list of recommended immunizations I have ever seen for a country on the CDC site. I know somebody who got Malaria in Hawaii, which does not recommend any pre-treatment. </p>

<p>I am not saying this to upset you, but to advise other traveler’s abroad to remember their immunizations. Especially, Malaria. One is never completely cured of this disease. After the initial treatment, it hibernates in the spinal column and may or may not reappear throughout a lifetime. Hopefully, your son’s music will keep the bugs away! I’d also advise him to be very careful of what he eats.</p>

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<p>I doubt very much that South Korea is a malaria country.</p>

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<p>binx, I’m really glad it’s worked out so far, and I hope it continues to work out. I just wanted to comment on one thing:</p>

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<p>I know this isn’t the situation, but if he decided not to go, he could use this to argue that they breached the contract initially by not sending the second contract, and therefore he should not be held to the penalty clause. He’d probably prevail on that ground, and on other parts of the contract that had not been fulfilled. Contracts are generally construed against the party who wrote them, so their breach would obviate his need to fulfill the contract. (It could also be argued that the first contract was not fully binding in any event, since it required a subsequent “meeting of the minds” to complete it.) </p>

<p>If in the future your son wants to get out of a contract, consult an attorney to see if the contract had been breached by the other party. There are generally attorneys who will review contracts for musicians and other artists at little or no cost; check with the local bar association. If he’s part of a union, the union often has lawyers that will review the contracts for their members.</p>

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<p>Thanks, Chevda. One of the reasons we (I) was so beligerant about getting the details of legality in Korea is that the US embassy in Seoul specifically says that once they are in the country, if there are contractual disputes, the foreigner has next to no rights, and can be held within the country until they are settled. If my S didn’t have a work visa, I could imagine him being detained.</p>

<p>I figured that we had a better chance challenging the contract while we were still here, working in English!</p>

<p>I used that clause, about transportation, and the fact that they changed flights as recently as last week, to insist on getting a copy of the e-ticket showing both flights (there and back.) The first contract says in one place that lodging would be paid for while in Korea. In another place, it specifically says beginning June 11. The girl pointed to that to show that we should not have been surprised 2 days ago to learn there was no housing the first night. I pointed out to her that, without the second contract specifying flight info, we could not ascertain whether the dates matched or not! We only received guarantee of the flights yesterday. </p>

<p>She argued with me about there needing to be a second contract, until I convinced her to actually look at the first one. Then she said, Oh. Well. It’s not my fault. Quite blaming me for everything.</p>

<p>But I wondered privately if that phrase, “separate contract” was a poor translation. Perhaps they meant to write a “separate arrangement.” However, as someone else mentioned, all we have to go by is what is written, and it says “contract.”</p>

<p>Malaria risk - <a href=“Travelers' Health | CDC”>Travelers' Health | CDC;

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He should be fine.</p>

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<p>binx: Wow, what an experience and he hasn’t even left yet. It’s amazing how much information is contained in this one thread about overseas travel, legal contracts in other countries etc. etc. I will admit is has opened my eyes to the complexity of it all.</p>

<p>I really wanted to say good luck to your family as he goes through the rest of this experience. I am sure I am not the only one keeping you in my thoughts and wishing him a great trip along with an uneventful trip back home.</p>

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My D taught English in China for a month-long camp, and the camp director took care of the visas. We later found out that the teachers were all given tourist, not worker visas, and the money that they were paid was considered a “stipend”, not a wage. I’m not sure if this was all legit, but I think it was a way to cut down on the problems with all the paperwork involved in having a foreign worker. Your son may only need a tourist visa if he is not being paid a wage. (is he being paid?) THere may be other loopholes for visitors who aren’t formally employed, or who are with nonprofit groups doing charity work or some such thing, or for visitors only in the country for a short period of time… so the whole issue of HIV testing and work visa may be non-existent.</p>

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<p>No, he had to fill out forms a month ago or so because the Company (sponsor) suddenly realized they all needed work visas. That’s how I knew to ask about them. They have 4 gigs in Korea - the main one is unpaid, for charity, but does carry the plane flights and hotel as remuneration. The others are in churches, and I think they are of the “donation” variety, but they are expecting to make about $1000 per gig (divided by 5). Apparently there is something in that equation that fit the requirements for a work visa.</p>

<p>The answer to this question, by the way, was that yes, the visas had been obtained, and the group “leader” had already received a certificate number. It was taken care of and I shouldn’t worry about such things because it showed my lack of trust. ;)</p>

<p>I just returned from the airport. He is now bound for NYC, where he will meet up with the rest of the group this evening. I appreciate everybody’s good wishes, and will let you know how it goes, as I hear.</p>