That is apparently what the middle school counselor suggested, so it should be possible. However, now that you mention it, the parent and student would want to double check that one year of language at their middle school would in fact be equivalent to one year of language at their high school.
In our district, middle school language is slower, so students are supposed to start FL in 7th grade if they want to be placed in 2nd year of the FL when they start high school.
Yes this is true. But that would mean that she will need to start with either Spanish or French at 8th grade. Based on the responses so far, this would be a bad decision because
I feel a bit confused by this post. Are you planning to advise your D to choose a foreign language in HS based on (1) less likelihood of competition from heritage speakers in that language, so that theoretically she would have higher grades, and (2) lack of high level offerings at your HS, so that she wonât feel obligated to pursue the language to a high level? (I hope not, because those arenât great reasons to pick a language, IMHO.)
Ideally, you want a language that your D wants to study. But if my child felt lukewarm on all of the available languages, Iâd advise her to choose a strong program thatâs well supported at the school, with great teachers, high level offerings, and students in that program who are excited about the language.
The kids in my area who start Spanish 1 but for whom it is a heritage language are ALL OVER THE MAP. Some speak a dialect at home which is NOT what is taught in school; some have a basic vocabulary (food, furniture, things you find in a living room) but do not speak grammatically-- the language spoken at home is a kinda-sorta âSpanglishâ; and some, of course- speak and read very confidently with proper grammar and an extensive vocabulary.
I would NEVER suggest that a kid would be at a disadvantage taking Spanish because there are heritage speakers in the class. Some of them will struggle to overcome bad habits, slang, etc. Some of them are naturally good at languages. But you canât generalize at all. And some of them have low motivation from the git go and are just taking the class for what they assume is an Easy A and then they hit a wall⊠theyâre happy to learn vocabulary, but grammar? Sentence structure?
During Covid I tried an online course for a language I had grown up with at home but hadnât spoken in years (and had never read literature, and never written anything approaching a grammatical sentence). I lasted three classes. My âdialectâ was NOT what was taught in actual, formal classes; the mixture of expressions and poor pronunciation was clearly exasperating the professor; other than a few nursery rhymes which I remembered from my childhood my âheritageâ knowledge was really useless. Analyze an essay or a work of poetry? Please! Growing up with a language may or many not confer any advantages.
I think weâve all run out of suggestions for you. If your D doesnât want to add another language then there you are. If you donât think itâs worthwhile, and your D doesnât want to do it, then donât do it.
Personally Iâd suggest starting French or Spanish and dropping engineering but thatâs me. Engineering before calculus and physics is ânice to haveâ but not a good representation of what the field is all about. But this is your kid and her educationâŠ
Iâm leaving the âdisadvantage by heritage speakersâ part out as it is a bit subjective, and Iâm focusing on the second part which basically compares the 3 following different scenarios:
What Iâm saying is that choice #1 might be bad because college admissions will ask why she didnât do #2.
And #3 is equal to #2 for college admissions purposes. All this based on most of the responses so far.
This isnât really a viable/good optionâŠthe option is to stop at Level 3/4 and take another CORE class. Cores>Electives.
For college admissions purposes, and for every other purpose, you want your child to be happy and engaged in learning in middle and high school. So I think the biggest questions to ask are
Not necessarily true. And anyway. Your student is now in 8th grade. There is no way to even guess what sorts of colleges they will be applying to 5 years from now.
No they wonât.
Does your middle school have a robotics team, or is there one in your community? If so, have your daughter join. She will learn a LOT about engineering doing robitics.
Ok even so, suppose choice #1 is equivalent to #2. But again I donât see any downside by choosing #3, which is starting Latin at HS.
As I answered before, zero. If she picks another language, this will be purely for college admissions and nothing else. She wonât be happy about it but she will do it as she is determined to aim high.
Yes, she is actually in the school team already and participated in a competition couple of months ago
Your child is very fortunate to already be part of a robotics team. ReallyâŠshe is going to learn WAY more about actual applied engineering as a member of the robotics team than by taking a course about engineering in grade 8.
There certainly isnât anything wrong with starting Latin in grade 9 and taking it all four years. BUT remember, this likely will not leave room for an extra elective course, and some kids really enjoy those electives.
Not really a downside to that plan, but by taking Span or Fr 1 in 8th, she could be done with FL in 11th grade (assuming she goes thru L4), and take another core (science, math, Eng, SS) in 12th. IMO she does NOT have to max out FL at her school (I realize others have said something different on this thread, as well as the HS counselor). Just some things to think about. If she is aiming high she needs at least 5 core courses every year in HS.
If she has robotics team in jr high, why take an engineering elective in 8th?
Itâs going to be difficult to excel in her studies if she approaches it this way (and it doesnât sound like a lot of fun either). If she canât find anything to be excited about in French or Spanish, perhaps between now and next year when she needs to pick her electives for 9th grade, she can learn more about the different language programs at the high school, and find things in at least one of the programs to get genuinely excited about.
Just addingâŠI had lunch with one of my kids today. That kid took Spanish through grade 10, and then again in college (she was also an engineering major and while engineering didnât require a FL in collegeâŠher second major did). WellâŠthis kid is using her Spanish a lot.
Latin is a great language for certain majorsâŠlike linguistics. But a spoken language might be useful to your daughter in the future.
I note she can also keep up the Greek. Obviously not as common in the US as Spanish, but still could be something she actually seeks out uses for.
Its actually engineering 2/3. She already took engineering 1 at 7th grade.
She just likes it a lot.
On the other hand I find it somewhat normal. I believe very few kids are genuinely excited about everything. Some are more STEM oriented, some like FL, some like arts, SS etc. My child happens not to like FL, and I donât want to brainwash her to change her feelings about it. I know if we end up taking another language, she will try to do her best, but she wonât be excited about this.
I think the brainwashing language is over the top, but I respect that you feel strongly about not making her take an elective that she doesnât want.
On the other hand, I worry that you and she have decided that she doesnât like studying languages before she has actually tried it beyond her heritage schooling. Has she enjoyed learning Greek or does she dislike that as well. I know many kids who do not enjoy attending weekend Chinese school and weekend French school (or for that matter Hebrew School and church Sunday School), but I would not automatically extrapolate from their feelings about those experiences to high school language study.
Furthermore, I donât think it is brainwashing to encourage kids to be open-minded in order give new subjects a fair shot. This is not about forcing them to grit their teeth and bear an intolerable course, it is about learning to find enjoyment and value in activities that donât initially sound fun. It is a good skill to learn, and at least sometimes an open-minded kid can be surprised to find a previously scorned subject has become pleasurable. Sometimes it is because of the subject itself proves interesting and sometimes the change of heart can stem from a particularly great, vibrant, or funny teacher. Or a group of great classmates who turn out to be soulmates and suddenly rather than hating French, the kid might find themselves president of the French club as a senior just because it is so great to sit around eating fondue and baguettes with their buddies. 
If a kid goes into an activity sure that theyâll hate it then it is a setup for misery at best and failure at worst.
In general, I think students are most successful academically when they can find a way to tap into a sense of intellectual curiosity and a love of learning. It is a lot harder to get good grades when a kid approaches the class like they are being forced fed Brussel sprouts.
Itâs actually easier than starting a second language from scratch.
At our school plenty of kids start in level 1 (including one of mine) and they get to level 4 or AP (it takes a little extra effort to go from 3 to AP, but it happens).
Highly selective expect applicants to reach Level 4 in a foreign language - that can mean being done in 11th grade, leaving space for doubling up in a class of interest. Students do NOT need to get an AP in every core subject and for foreign language Level 4 is the expectation at highly selective universities.
A point that may not be clear: when selective colleges say âforeign languageâ they do not mean âforeign to English-speaking Americansâ but âforeign to the studentâ. The goal is to discover how a language you donât know works as well as different cultures - same as algebra, itâs for the new ways you can make brain cogs turn and pivot and create new neuronal pathways. It matters in terms of stretching yourself and intellectual curiosity, which top US colleges highly value.
Heritage languages can be counted in 2 situations: first, the studentâs parents graduated from elementary or middle school only (or no school at all). That may be the case for refugee families whose kids are in ESL then get mainstreamed. That language may not be taught at all and in that case the certification may be sufficient if thereâs no âLanguage for native speakersâ class because parents with very little education are unlikely to have taught their kids enough hence the kids had to learn the language system and the cultural comparisons required by the courses leading to the certification. Another situation is if the kids arrived in MS and were still in ESL.
Second case scenario, the student tests into a higher level college class in that heritage language and takes 3 or 4 semesters of it, which cover any college entrance requirement. It wouldnât be strictly âlanguageâ at that point though but history, literature, cinema, archeology, business, health professions ⊠(depending on the language).
One downside to the Latin plan is that if admitted to a highly selective college they may be required to take 1 advanced literature class in Latin or take 2 semesters of a modern language (there are usually options for advanced modern languages that involve fillm or history rather than literature, which may not be available for Latin). Unless the Latin program is very good, it may be better to study a modern foreign language. Choosing the program with the best teachers or the most dynamic program is always a good way to choose, too!
(Note: Latin is almost nothing like Modern Greek. However Modern Greek makes learning Ancient Greek easier and typically 2 or 3 semesters of college Ancient Greek will satisfy the college entrance requirement - still the same problem as with Latin I think.
Also, imho Spanish is not clearly easier than French: Spanish spelling is easier and level 1-2 are immediately easier which might be where the reputation comes from but conjugation starting at the intermediate level is much trickier, with more tenses you need to actually use. So itâs a wash. (DoD and foreign service classify them the same.)
Middle/high school foreign language is not that time consuming: 1 school year of Spanish or French 1 would be taught in 6 to 8 weeks in college.
3-4 years typically mean A2 and AP only reaches B1 on the CEF scale (autonomous use, threshold level.) College students/majors may get to B2 (which implies significant cultural knowledge and high-level critical thinking) or depending on the college or the student, C1 (professional use - only available for adults who have professional experience and have lived abroad.)
So, actual choices that will be acceptable to highly selective universities:
Frankly, all my kids gave up on French in 9th grade. If your kid is not interested in humanity majors even 2 years of FL will work for many schools. Engineering schools will focus on Math, Chem, Physics and CS. So relax, 2 years of Latin plus seal of biliteracy in Greek plus ton of STEM classes with good GPA and your daughter will land in a right place.
Make your daughter partcipate in some state and regional competitions while in HS (like best essay in Greek, best poem reading etc.) These awards she can put on her college application.