None of this is relevant to the question of whether T20 schools generally prefer to see more than 2 years of foreign language. The answer to that question is yes. We know this because the schools themselves have explicitly told us this in their CDS’s. (Holistic admissions does not mean students can take whatever courses they want.)
I happen to agree 100% with your philosophy around admissions and I like your guidance a lot. But when students ask for knowable information like this, we should try to provide that information. And only then provide our helpful wisdom on the whole endeavor which I think is very valuable too.
To be fair, when a student (or a parent in the student’s behalf) asks such a question, they should also provide a lot more background behind the question - their target schools, their potential major, their proposed course schedule, their level of FL completed for a start.
Users, even experienced users, should not be expected to read minds or pull teeth. Nor should they be expected to provide all the permutations and combinations which may not be relevant to the OP.
A university’s suggested HS preparation (as opposed to requirements) are not set in stone. There are valid reasons for applying without having met them and many applicants get accepted lacking a “suggested” course or two. Whether any reasons apply to the OP is unknown, since they provided no detail
Whether they want to maximize admissions chance (on paper at least) vs. do what they want, is OPs choice, though. Not ours. They may want to know the actual data from admissions and balance options between what they want, and what looks best. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that.
I personally agree kids shouldn’t do everything to curate “perfect” profile, but if they want to know what schools are looking for I think we should be crystal clear on what that is, even if disappointing to them.
Bear in mind some of that 78% had no chance to take a 4th year as it wouldn’t be offered at their school, or some other scenario where it is literally not possible to get 4th year…
Then you will have completed up through level three. It sounds like you want to become a doctor. That being the case…closer to fluency in Spanish will be a plus.
You are asking about competitive colleges or programs. Understand that many applicants will have competed a higher level of FL than you. At some colleges, you might be required to take FL in college if you don’t have a certain level, or don’t pass a FL proficiency test at a certain level. You need to check this.
Maybe…depends on the college.
As an aside…I hope you are also looking at colleges outside of the T20 and BS/MD programs which are all highly competitive…and I’m saying that without knowing anything about you…other than you don’t want to take another FL course.
Could you please list the science courses you have already taken so we have some context here?
@coolcats998
Taking AP Spanish would be very useful to a premed since at most colleges getting a decent AP score qualifies the student for Spanish for health professions whereas stopping at Level 3 means placement test and at least 1 more semester of Spanish before they can take Spanish for health professions.
I advise you to stick with the language for a few reasons. First, selective colleges will want to see that you took the most rigorous courses possible, so dropping a language when there are still courses to take doesn’t look great (except for those with learning disabilities for whom learning a language is extraordinarily difficult). Second, even STEM schools want well-rounded candidates. High school is the time to build broad foundations, not specialize. Third, some schools will have foreign language requirements (either for general studies or for study abroad), and if you take an AP FL class, you might be able to satisfy them. And finally, the science electives you want to take are probably classes you could take in college – so this will not be your last chance to take those courses.
In the big question “does having more than two years of foreign language matter” I missed the little remark “BSMD”.
Three things come to mind when I see BSMD. One is that BSMD programs are very, very competitive. Another is that most doctors went the more traditional “four years of bachelor’s then apply to medical school” route, and most students who start university thinking “premed” end up doing something else.
The third thing that comes to mind is that if you do end up in medical school and then as a doctor, having a second language can be quite valuable. There is a significant value in being able to talk to patients directly without a translator, and apparently not all people in the USA speak English fluently. One nurse practitioner who I know very well has told me that speaking Spanish has been a significant value to her in every job that she has ever had.
If you get to Spanish 3, my understanding is that this means that universities will consider this as the equivalent of having taken three years of Spanish.
Of course “top 20” schools are a reach for essentially all students, and are definitely not necessary to get into a very strong medical school. If you do not get accepted to a top 20 university you will probably never know why. However, there are plenty of students who attend universities ranked somewhere in the 50 to 150 or even 200 range and who then end up at a very good medical school.
To me all of this suggests that taking one more year of a foreign language might be a good idea, but is not essential.
And I think that this is fine, although I do wonder when you will find the time. I suppose that studying Spanish over the summer would be a possibility. I would expect that in addition to local colleges, there are probably also good programs over the summer in Spain and probably also in South America that would be possible if they are affordable for you and your family.
I also agree with this.
At some level you have to do what seems right to you, and then find a college or university that is okay with the choices that you made.
@coolcats998 : taking a college course would work, too, but note that college foreign language courses are accelerated compared to HS FL. Typically, college level 1= HS 1+2, college level2= HS3, so that you would be taking College Spanish 3 (/203…) then 4.
Respectfully, I believe none of us here are admissions officers at any of the colleges in question. We cannot know what they definitely want.
Obviously I am very familiar with this topic. Generally, recommended is thinly veiled to mean required. But in holistic admissions at top colleges, there isn’t necessarily a rule book. I don’t think OP should feel compelled to take FL just for college apps. If OPs desire to get into a top college outweighs the desire to take additional science classes, then they can make their decisions based on that. I am clearly not misleading anyone or giving false information and I’m not sure why anyone would imply that I am.
Just to preview, I am also generally a fan of doing all of Physics, Chem, and Bio at least once in HS. Again not really because I think that is necessarily required for college admissions (although in many cases it probably won’t be a bad idea), but because I actually think that doing that is important for the purpose of getting a solid college prep education in the natural sciences.
I’m a sophomore right now. Everybody in my school takes biology junior year. And If I don’t take FL, I will do AP Chem, AP Bio, and AP Physics C during my junior and senior year
No college will expect you to have all 3 (bio, chem, physics) AND 3 APs covering each subject on top of it. You can double up senior once you know which 2 APs are most interesting to you.
I mean the CDS is telling us what the schools prefer/require, as do the million former AOs that offer their services (some of whom I have spoken to). I am not going out on a limb to say they are not getting paid by the foreign language teachers’ associations nor do they want to tell kids things they don’t want to hear.
Also, if we shouldn’t give advice on this sort of question, why does this board exist, exactly?
I will drop this exchange here, as it is now way off topic, though.
For foreign language, level completed always matters for college admission, although some (not all) colleges also prefer to see more courses taken, unless you complete the top level available (but colleges are not always clear about that).
If you want to take Spanish at a college, you need to find out from the college’s Spanish department how your Spanish 3 in high school places you into college Spanish courses. College courses will cover material at a faster pace than high school courses.
If you want to go into patient-facing health care, a useful speaking and listening knowledge of Spanish can be useful in some contexts.
You have taken two physics courses already. That being the case, I would suggest taking foreign language one more year instead of a third physics class in high school.