I have found that one of my child’s biggest disappointments provided an excellent college essay topic. So, will setting your child up for failure become the next tiger parent strategy? 
lookingforward, you still don’t get it. Typically, the local state school is the standard option for an average student who doesn’t enter the elite school rat race, correct? Well, around here even that option has become extremely competitive. Escalating college costs have caused many top students to attend the state schools who in the past would not have, thereby pushing up their admissions requirements into the elite school range for some majors. I just spoke with a parent whose child attends the closest non-flagship state school to our home. Notice I said it is NOT even the flagship. His D had listed biology on her application as a prospective major. She got a letter from the university stating that unless her high school GPA were 4.2 and her SAT scores were >2250, she would not admitted to that major. That situation leaves students needing to attend a private school if they wish to pursue their passions–something the article advocates. Well, unfortunately, not everyone can afford private school prices. At our high school, which is populated with children who began taking math and science AP’s in middle school, being merely average requires at least a few AP’s junior and senior year. Ten years ago my S took 13 AP’s and got A’s in all of them, and did not even crack the top echelon in class rank. Since then, it has gotten even worse.
Pulling up a chair and popping some popcorn…
I will admit that my HYPS daughter did go to the local private school (not a big name), but Tiger Mother that I am, I required her to be in bed by 10 or 10:30 each night for 8 hours sleep. There were a handful of nights when she didn’t make it, but I simply didn’t let her drive for accomplishment and creativity destroy her sanity.
Some kids can demonstrate intellectual prowess w/o living the horror of endless APs and grade perfection. In fact DD grades weren’t perfect, but she had national and county awards. I think some schools see the differences between what parents orchestrate and what students discover on their own.
Why don’t you participate in the discussion instead? Perhaps your experiences can illustrate to some posters on here that their reality is not the only reality.
I have some difficulty writing about my DD experience as it is her experience, but it is relevant to the endless discussions I see, discussions where bright children are subjected to a seemingly the well worn path to an elite school (endless APs, SAT prep, 28 clubs, one million hours of community service, etc.) I think that would be mind numbing and destructive to an engaged life, especially when so much of the process is luck.
I really didn’t do much. I am a single parent, and my job is demanding. I paid for private school, the best in my area, but nothing elite. My daughter herself had intellectual and political commitments that she followed. Perhaps I fostered them in my lifestyle, but it was her. She is smart, but more importantly she is internally driven and creative. At one point she was applying to a highly competitive summer program and stressing out about it. She had found out about the program on CC; I knew nothing about it except it had a 4 or 5 % acceptance rate. Concerned that she was too stressed and unrealistic in her expectation, I told her, “Just quick finish up the application, and work on your math grade.” She got into the program.
HYPS was wise to take her. She is always applying for internal grants and fellowships. No one tells her to do it; she wants to do more, and she is able to do it off the tracks. She is the kind of student that Ivies want.
socialpapa - you are correct. I went back and read that again.
That said, H and I did attend all of our kids sport events, competitions, performances, etc. We chose to and enjoyed it.
Like many other parents, we did things for our kids but they were on their own for other things. It never occurred to us to do their homework or write essays for them. They packed their own lunches because I dislike doing that, but I did the laundry because I don’t mind. They are now 19 and 24 and very independent.
From our family’s perspective, if exploring and developing personal interests are a serious desire, downtime and freedom are real necessities. Having a daily life that is not over scheduled with academic work and pre-arranged lists of activities and having time to really dig into interests is a step toward discerning adult goals. Sometimes those interests lead to additional academic study bc they want to explore in greater depth.
Being part of a very large family requires teamwork to function. No problem learning to carry your own weight, b/c no one is going to carry it for you. (nothing like a group of siblings to ensure equity of work. ) Life skill training starts at a young age.
As far as reading CC…this is the greatest free guidance counselor training there is. 
I am my kids’ GC. Every gap in my knowledge means a gap in their opportunities. Being well-educated in options opens doors for their futures. Lots of doors are closed to them bc our personal choices. (Large family living on one income definitely limits financial opportunities.) Being aware of different schools, scholarships, etc is part of my parental role.
@mamalion What is “the horror of endless APs and grade perfection”? My kids counted themselves fortunate to go to a school which had the AP courses they did.
It seems to me that some of the rhetoric here sends a mixed message–sometimes promoting independence, but other times promoting interdependence. So, pack your own lunch–but you have to go to Grandma’s 80th birthday party even if you have a big game. I think families have to find a point of balance–and I also get tired of extreme examples being used to bash people who are bit farther along the involvement spectrum one way or the other.
@Hunt Absolutely. My most recent circle of HS parents talked the talk in terms of independence, and self-sufficiency, but I began to notice a couple years ago that some kids in that group just never managed to actually get a job.
It gradually became clear that having their own money would have represented an uncomfortable level of independence (for the parents).
Similarly when students go to college. Parents seem to want to have them on a short financial string in order to continue to be in control.
People like to get hot under the collar. Clearly, the author is clued into that.
We could trade anecdotes all day and try to notch up whose high school was tougher or demanded more silly efforts or which of us is more concerned for our kids.
Bottom line, as said, “be a parent.” A good one.
Figure.it.out.
I like to see kids stretch and don’t believe extreme coddling is always needed. But hey, so what if, once in a while, you drop off the lunch they forgot?
@hunt I agree. It is also not realistic to believe all children require the same level of involvement or even the exact same parenting. Kids are individuals and have individual needs. Our high anxiety, OCD, poor executive functioning adult Aspie requires more parental support and involvement than his sibling who is 5 yrs younger.
So is the author saying that attending all (or most) of a kid’s games or performances makes one a helicopter parent? That volunteering in the PTO is not rewarding in and of itself but must be a sign of helicoptering? And that both of these means that a parent is not treating themselves well? Are they saying it is OK to let a kid that is capable of doing honors level work slide by in regular classes, where they can get As with virtually no effort, because the kid would rather hang out with friends or play video games?
For a internally driven kid, parents can be much more hands off than with a kid that is immature, has trouble focusing or who will take the easy path if allowed. That doesn’t mean forcing a kid into an all AP track, but I am not sure it is good parenting to let a kid take the easy way out in every situation. Not every kid of a CC parent is a driven, internally motivated striver. Some of our kids have slacker tendencies, especially in the early high school years when college is just too far away to matter. What do those parents do to both support their kids yet still have high standards? Of course that doesn’t mean doing the work for the kid or asking for easier work or accommodations, which to me is helicoptering.
I chose to volunteer in the PTO and other school activities because I wanted to, not because it was going to get my kids some advantage at the school. I found it rewarding in and of itself, or I did it because nobody else was going to. I attended most of my kids’ games, performances or competitions, because I like watching them and because it was a social experience with the other parents. My kids did miss for important family events, and the coaches understood that for the most part. At other times, the team had to come first if it was a critical game or competition.
Thegfg is there a reason why the NHS became so much more difficult at your daughter’s HS? It is interesting how the high schools handle this and there do not seem to be national standards. I wonder if this is considered a “good” EC by colleges. Or if it looks bad if a kid is not in NHS if offered. However, not sure it is worth the level of effort required at your daughter’s HS.
Sometimes it’s easier for a parent to visualize potential paths for their children because we know how the world works. I am saddened when I see kids express a particular goal but seem to have no clue how to pursue it, and parents aren’t helping them either. These parents are fond of saying “They’ll figure it out.” Some will, but some will end up working as a store clerk in the mall at age 27 when they wanted more and were capable of more, simply because of the lack of guidance. To me, that is just as bad as helicoptering. I am not suggesting we should dictate a life path, but I think we can assist them flesh out vague longings by directing them when and where to lift the anchor and start steering the boat.
This is not a national problem.
I have read interviews with this former Stanford dean, and I’ve read a portion of the book. It seems to me that she was unrealistic about the role elite colleges play in this over parenting/pressure cooker culture. This culture is fed by articles in newspapers and magazines about how difficult it is to get into a “good” college these days. Paradoxically, I believe some colleges (not Stanford!) have noticed that the perception of selectivity increases a college’s appeal in the marketplace.
On balance, though, it is not reasonable to turn to elite university admissions personnel for parenting advice. Their job is to deliver the most accomplished, driven class of students to their employer. They do not see “normal” people in their work. I admit it’s fun to read about “failures of helicopter parenting,” but like so many other things at the tippy top, this is not the real world.
Gfg, I can entirely agree with post 94. And that’s what many are saying, in their own ways. There is no one right, no saying they “have to” this or that. When we flex, when we watch, when we offer advice, we can guide. Maybe inspire. And maybe help them overcome or adapt. Good things.
At some points though- and I think most of us agree- we have to step out of their paths. Sometimes in little ways; other times, the larger challenges. If we are watching, we should know when that is.
Exactly LF. Although I am not sure that it is as easy as watching and knowing. It is tough to decide when to help, when to back off, when to offer suggestions but allow them to implement or not, and when intervention is required. That is the balancing act of parenting. Figuring out if a kid that is struggling is not working hard enough, needs a helping hand, needs outside help, or is truly incapable of handling the challenge. And trying to decide if a wall can be knocked down with more effort, or is an immovable obstacle hat requires a new path to get around it.
I still believe that we are talking about different types of high school environments, based on our experiences. I am not in a contest about whose kid’s high school was toughest. I am just trying to explain the local environment as I observed it.
AP overload is not a problem at the local high school. The AP classes are more intellectually focused and less overloaded with arts and crafts than the other classes (as is true at TheGFG’s kids’ school also). So they were better time-wise. Not that many AP’s were offered; I don’t think 13 were available, even if a student had somehow taken all of the language APs. There were no honors-level and regular-level classes–at least, not officially, since no classes were labeled as “honors.” That is different from many of the schools that CC kids attend.
If I had seen any other child who was thriving in the local high school environment, with academics + friends + sleep, I would have said that it was just a case that some students were more able. Fine. But I did not see any local high schoolers with academics + friends who got enough sleep. It’s not like they were collapsing, but “thriving on the challenge” would be overstating the case. There may have been some students who went the academics + sleep route, whom I never met.
Perhaps a good test is the number of students at the local high school who fall asleep in classes. At my high school, I do not remember a single student ever falling asleep in class. At QMP’s high school, it was commonplace for students to fall asleep in class. I don’t think the difference is that the teachers were more boring.
It is true that people who naturally require less sleep are at an advantage. At QMP’s single-initial college, there were a number of students who seemed to do fine on 4 hours of sleep a night. More power to them. One of the most distinguished scientists I know is in that category.
One of my faculty colleagues was advised by another not to put so much effort into his publications, but rather “just slop them out.” (Very effective in publishing slop.) Giving the equivalent advice to a high school student, to cut corners if not actually skipping an assignment–I would not have felt that it was right to do that. Perhaps I should have. I don’t think it’s a good way to work, though. I know that lookingforward values getting “out there” and getting things done in the real world. It’s a great advantage, and aligns better with American culture. To our family, academia is the real world.
I never went to a PTO meeting. I didn’t have the time for it–even if they had not been scheduled during the working day, as they were.
We’re talking about parenting.
And you often somehow morph my words.
I get that you have a set of experiences, some dating back to when your kid was in hs, some to your own hs experiences. That does not change that many kids do fine. And that we parents do need to know our own kids, their strengths and their tolerances, as well as what accelerates them. This is not about 4 hours sleep being okay. Or who manages on 4 hours. Nor some dichotomy between parents who value stretch and those who feel academic is enough real world. It just isn’t about that.