With respect to the false statements in Brock’s letter to the judge, my understanding is that the judge was made aware of this prior to his sentencing because the prosecutor introduced the evidence of his prior drug and alcohol use. The judge thus chose to not only give Brock an unduly light sentence, but to do so despite Brock having lied directly to him.
"She has since released another statement to KTVU Fox 2, which details her reasons for remaining anonymous. It stems from both a desire to protect her identity and to make a symbolic gesture that she is “every woman.”
Read the statement in full, below."
http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/06/why-stanford-rape-victim-wants-to-be-anonymous.html
^^apologies if this has been posted already
…
It’s possible the light sentence will discourage women going to the police. I think it is more likely she is providing a role model on how to fight back. I think the model encourages more women not only to report, but to be very vocal.
I believe she put her letter out there herself. I interpret post #751 as almost advocating silencing her, although I am sure that is not what Momofthreeboys intended.
This “silencing” issue is why I wonder if there will be a civil case. Like dstark I had been remembering the Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman families. It also goes back to the idea it’s understandable families will do anything possible to protect their children. imho. Without what they feel an adequate sentence, this is another way to punish Turner. I’m not arguing it’s a good idea, just thinking about it all.
I’m ready to rehabilitate Rasmussen, but understand if the NYC music scene isn’t.
Damn it. I think you are right.
@pittsburghscribe, your post #760 is a big blow against the judge.
As far as I can tell, Jonri is always right.
And I’ve been paying very close attention to her posts for years now.
@alh, my post was in response to a post about lower Stanford rape reports since fall…i can’t find that post now. I was supposing that perhaps Stanfords reports were down because women were nervous about reporting given the media publicity.
@wisteria100:
I am not a lawyer, but as far as I know letters from the accused or those supporting him are not sworn under oath, they are not sworn affadavits as far as I know. More importatantly, the dad and the son both used the excuse of being from a small town, that he wasn’t able to handle the ‘drinking culture’, but in the judge’s ruling there is no indication he took that into account.The judge said the kid had a clean record and otherwise didn’t appear to be a threat, had he cited the letters he would have egg on his face but I don’t think it is legally perjury.
As far as the dad’s letter goes, whether ‘action’ is a euphemism for sex or not, the wording of the letter implies that this was consensual sex gone wrong, that the son ‘made a mistake in judgement’ rather than what it was, doing something that there was no gray area around whatsoever, given that the girl was unconconscious (even assuming she had consented earlier, which is dubious, once she was out she no longer could be considered consenting, because consenting also means the right to say no at any point, or stop; someone unconconscious cannot do that). Then we have the whole ‘promiscuity’ wording, that is a word that can’t be misconstrued. Promiscuity implies someone who is having sex with anything that moves and also implies that the sex was consensual. Worse, when he talks about the son going around talking about drinking and promiscuity and its effects, it is implying that the victim in this case, if she had only heard the temperance lecture, would not be drinking and having sex, would have been safe, and besides the fact that she never consented to sex (it was rape), it implies she was consenting. You can argue it was bad wording, but promiscuity has very heavy weight on it, and who was he lecturing? Those who get drunk and then have sex with someone, or those who get drunk and get raped?
The way the dad worded it, it comes out that what happened was the ‘wages of sin of drinking and promiscuity’. Unless the father is a complete idiot, that had to be deliberate. He could have said that his son would be the perfect person to talk to kids about the consequences of getting drunk around the area of sex, about how it ruined his life, if the kid went around saying I got drunk and ended up sexually assaulting someone and destroying their life and mine as well, I could accept that. But drinking and promiscuity? That sounds like something out of the 1970’s, where a defense lawyer would paint a woman who was at a bar, got drunk, as being promiscuous since she obviously was looking for sex and therefore it was her fault (the lawyer for Robert Chambers, the so called Preppie Killer, tried that in the 80’s, painting the victim, who was murdered, as a girl always out for a good time, etc, fortunately the jury was sickened by it). I am sorry, the father comes off as a jerk, I wouldn’t be surprised if he would be the type of guy who gets drunk and then thinks any woman in range must have the hots for him, the kid learned that attitude someplace.
@alh, I can’t remember a post where I disagreed with Jonri. Maybe I should have @jonri proof read my posts before I post.
I was kind of joking about 12 million americans able to read. Kind of.
I was listening to Bob Saget and he said he likes SF. People who live in SF actually read books.
Women are nervous about reporting because they don’t get justice when they report and they become victims again when they report.
I am not making this up. We just have to listen to victims. Victims actually tell us why they don’t report. We don’t have to guess.
Have you seen Joe Biden’s letter?
I just watched The Hunting Ground on Netflix last night. Haven’t yet read all the posts on this thread but echo anyone who has said it is a definite must-see.
Sorry to be a bit of a wet blanket, but I have to inject a dose of reality.
If judges started holding false statements (even those made under oath) against convicted defendants when determining their sentences, the electric chairs would be running 24 hours a day. People are caught lying under oath all the time in criminal trials. I imagine seasoned judges pretty much expect it, and only take it into account in the most extreme cases.
Let’s get real here. We’ve even had a sitting President of the United States supply false testimony in a sexual assault trial, and most of the country either just yawned or made excuses for him. This horse left the barn ages ago.
Or maybe rapes actually went down because the rapists lived in fear of being brought down by some Swedish grad students on bicycles!
I think we need to keep in mind that the reported rape rate is a function of BOTH the number of rapes committed and the likelihood of them being reported, which is probably correlated with how supported the survivors feel. In the case of Stanford, I would think women would have felt more comfortable reporting after Turner was arrested than before.
Post #753 is eye-opening. Usually I don’t see the point of locking anyone up except to protect society. After reading Missoula I really feel differently about rape. Survivors need some sense of justice. This survivor didn’t want Turner to rot in jail, but she did want something much more than what she got in the way of justice.
Jonri - once again, thanks for the links.
…
post #772, wouldn’t it be interesting if the fact Turner was interrupted, his guilt almost assumed from the beginning based on eyewitness reports to the media, and bystanders were lauded as heroes, created an environment with less rapes? Is that even possible? I certainly hope that’s the case.
Someone IRL commented that that, naturally, the cylists were Swedes, but since I had read the police reports linked to on this thread, I was able to assure that person some American students behaved well, too. I continue to be impressed with those intoxicated male party goers who offered assistance.
Having grown up in a small Midwestern town, having experience with several others over the years, I have to say that if that star/elite athlete had no experience with resisting or observing the “party scene” then he truly lived with his head under a rock. Small Midwest towns have the same issues with the availability and incidence of recreational drugs and alcohol as any city or to any suburban bedroom community. In fact, there is often an increase in those areas because the affluent kids have money to spend and time to kill. Big problem we see around our neck of the woods.
Even if he did chose not to participate in high school (and swimmers often don’t have that much free time, but when they do, . . . ! The stories I know of from the high school team parties at our local high schools belie his naive portrayal of himself, his schtick that “the devil made me do it” (i.e., his bad influence team mates) is disingenuous. Just one more example of his failure to take responsibility for himself and his devastating actions. It wasn’t his fault—it was his teammates’ fault. You don’t get to the elite athlete status by being a wallflower or sheep. You get there by having faith in yourself and a will of your own.
Even if true, it shows a horrific level of lack of character and lack of internal moral compass.
@treemaven, Brock shows a horrific level of lack of character and lack of internal moral compass.
And according to his own words (his own texts) before the rape, he was a drinker and a drug user. His lack if experience was a lie.
So…Brock is a rapist and a liar.
The link in #769 to Joe Biden’s letter led me to this:
A Texas Republican in the US House also blasted the sentence.
If that’s true, will they still appeal? It could be quite a risk.
Joe Biden’s letter is incredibly moving. Bravo to him for writing it.
I love that he stresses the need for peer intervention in his letter. As I mentioned upthread, I don’t think this part of the message is being stressed enough in the training around this issue. Our kids need to be told: If you see someone in a vulnerable position, intervene.
^I so agree. And when we teach about intervening in an assault, we are already sending a message that assault is never okay.
Long ago in the south, (and perhaps other places as well) there was this concept that gentlemen always help damsels in distress. In this case, it isn’t such a bad concept, though I really applaud those three women who got involved and kept a stranger from being roofied. I guess these days I see both “gentlemen” and “damsels” as non-gendered ideas.
I love what Biden wrote. I love what Poe wrote too.
This case is bringing the left and right together. Democrats and republicans together.
Who would have thought that was possible?
I am feeling very optimistic about our society addressing the sexual assault issues.