That’s completely inappropriate thinking on behalf of a juror. Juror misconduct.
Of course it went on. My mother told me that when she was a student at Columbia Law School in the late 1940s – one of only three women in her class – she was sexually assaulted by a (famous) law professor. (Someone who was still being read in the 1970s; I was assigned of his articles when I was in law school.) It never even occurred to her to report it. She knew what would have happened.
With all due respect @dstark, this article is emotionally manipulative crap. I think the author is exploiting a tragedy to get attention. Even this very incident indicates that she's over generalizing ... wasn't Brock Turner caught by several passers-by who took it upon themselves to intervene?
I like to think that I have no illusions about how bad people can be. God knows I’m no saint myself. But, at least among the type of people that I’ve spent my life with, the passers-by are far more representative of the average guy than Brock Turner is.
Dunno, H strongly condemns the drunk rapist and I am pretty sure S does as well.
Using drunkenness as an excuse for criminal violence is pathetic–the drinker is compounding the crime. People aren’t even supposed to be drinking under age 21 but then turn around and try to excuse criminal violence because they had too much to drink!!!
Why is it misconduct to merely think that one’s effort as a juror will be wasted if, in the event that the defendant is found guilty of a felony, the judge reduces the penalty to that of a misdemeanor?
Also, how would you police a juror’s thoughts to detect such misconduct if s/he does not actually try to get excused from the jury on that basis?
@ucbalumnus, I also thought it was puzzling why “thoughts” which were essentially “wondering about something” were equated to “conduct.”
@al2simon, The author said more than a few men. A lot of men. She didn’t say everybody. She didn’t say a majority of men.
I drink at most once or twice a year. A glass of wine. I didn’t drink in college. I know the writer wasn’t talking about me. 
I know a couple of guys who fit this bill. Probably more than that, but two definitely. They went out and looked for drunk girls. One of the guys said he was in a frat and he said they used to carry the girls upstairs the girls were so drunk.
They didn’t think what they were doing was rape at the time. One guy was reading about the rapes of today and he is thinking a little differently about his behavior.
I think some mothers see their sons drinking and god knows what else and they are protective.
The article was an opinion…you can disagree.
I think there is a lot of truth to the article.
The concept of acquaintance rape didn’t yet exist in the 70s. I think we still knew who the mensches were. They weren’t the guys trying to get women drunk enough to have sex with them.
I don’t know if more or less rapes happen today on campus. A whole lot happened in the 70s. I just didn’t even understand how to label it till much later.
It does not take that many rapist men to rape a large number of women, particularly rape by intoxication, especially since:
A. Many victims do not report.
B. Many victims do not remember enough (due to the intoxication) to make useful reports that would help arrest, prosecute, and convict the rapists.
dstark, the author did say “most men”:
And I don’t really believe it. Some men, of course. More than a few, definitely. But, “most” men? Leaving aside the fact that it always annoys me when people use the word “men” to = “straight men” (which it definitely doesn’t), no, I don’t think “most” straight men have gone to parties and zeroed in on “the drunk girls” to try to take advantage of them. Remember, I used to live and walk among men, undetected! I used to go to parties with them all the time… I used to watch what they did. I used to listen to them talk about what they wanted to do. So, no. Not the kind of men who used to be my friends when I was that age. Not most of them. Not any of them as far as I knew. And besides, aren’t there statistics showing that the vast majority of sexual assaults are committed by a small percentage of men who do that kind of thing repeatedly, and deliberately try to pick off the “wounded antelopes,” as the young woman in this case put it?
^on various threads we’ve discussed whether most college rapists are predatory, serial rapists or whether some men rape because of circumstances and peer environment. When we read about some of these cases, it seems some men may not have raped in other circumstances. At this point, I don’t really believe the idea there are only a few, repeat, predatory college rapists - although I certainly believe those rapists exist.
I certainly believe there are groups of male college friends who find rape inconceivable and think my sons were part of that sort of friends group. They were participating in Take Back the Night marches.
I think saying “most men” is insulting to the large majority of men who would NEVER consider taking advantage of a drunk person, much less assaulting and raping her. Some men, I could definitely agree with–they are predators and opportunists, whether they like the label or not.
I agree with you. The writer should not have written most men.
I think most men find rape unacceptable and yes I wrote most.
Which is a reason why our society has to come to agreement that certain behavior is rape. Consent is necessary for sex. No sex with unconscious people. Drinking alcohol doesn’t give you an excuse when you rape somebody.
These issues have been going on for a long time. You would think we wouldn’t be having these same arguments today.
Some day… We won’t.
The two men who saved her were more like most men. The victim said one was even crying as he tried to comfort her, and she was touched by that.
I still really have a problem calling this:
- just another college rape (absolutely not condoning other circumstances), or
- just a result of him being drunk (again, not condoning that as an excuse ever)
There are many many people who have gotten very very drunk who would NEVER rape someone, let alone drag them/cajole them outside to behind a dumpster and rape them. Would you punch someone out when drunk? Would you kill someone when drunk?
Honestly - to be gross, was he going to see if she was alright afterwards? If she was still unconscious and the guys did not find them, would he have cared if she lived or died? Left her in the alley? Or dragged her back to the party unconscious?
We are talking about someone who is passed out. Not someone who is maybe saying no, or maybe not giving consent, and we have to consider her opinion and his opinion of what was said.
As for “no recollection of the assault” - neither did the Central Park jogger have any recollection of her assault…
The one thought that keeps coming in my mind is what role do parents play in enabling this type of behavior?
This is not to say that if a rape occurs the parents are to be blamed. We have another thread here about alcohol policies at home for a high school grad. We know the drinking age is 21 but so many underage kids do drink even in high school.
Brock Turner was doing drugs and drinking alcohol in high school. From the fathers response does it seem he was condoning/enabling this behavior as something not out of the ordinary. I wonder if this behavior and thinking was already ingrained in his head before he went to college based on what he had seen at home or in high school. He can’t blame his actions on environment or peer pressure. He did this on his own. People do drink but not everyone thinks of raping someone. He had to be very well aware of what he was doing. I have to wonder if he had done this before to someone else.
I actually think it is a very small number that are giving the rest of men a bad name. But I do sometimes wonder why we don’t have more men like Biden who are willing to help in straightening it out. There is still a lot of denial out there.
Most men have wives and daughters - this sort of culture benefits no one really.
I have two words for you:
swim
parents
Most people have females they care about in their lives–wives, daughters, moms, sisters, friends. When you think of one gender as alpha and the other as prey that are “available for the taking,” it harms everyone and our entire society and world.