I agree with @Pizzagirl that the word action in the father’s statement was not meant to imply sex. But it was a very poor, tone deaf choice of words. For me, the problem with the letter is the victim blaming insinuations and complete lack of empathy for the victim. As if Brock’s pain is worse!
And the mom’s statement with don’t send him to jail because he will be a target - Message to mom -the target was an unconscious innocent girl.
I get the parents love the son. That doesn’t mean you can’t own up to the actions
@pizzagirl Um, I know the judge used to be a prosecutor. I practice law in the area too. However, this defense attorney was no idiot. These letters – which appear to us to be tone deaf – WORKED. Defense attorneys edit these letters, which are not even required. I am not saying this judge was in general a pro-defense lackey. In fact, he may even have made a lot of pro-prosecution rulings during the trial – I’d have to read the transcript to know. But we are talking about sentencing. I have read literally hundreds of character letters – I am not speaking in a vacuum. I believe this defense attorney had done the homework, and knew what kid of pleas might work for this particular judge in a case like this in terms of sentencing. This sentence was a huge success for the defense attorney, and that was no accident. FWIW, I’m not supportive of a recall for this judge. I think the sentence was a mistake and perhaps even an abuse of discretion. But I don’t think the judge should be taken off the bench for it.
And I’ll add again – they were not expecting these letters to become public. It rarely happens. These letters are written for the sentencing judge. The only recent situation I can think of where sentencing letters became public was the Hastert case. In general, there is just not press interest in such things. That’s another part of the reason I believe these letters were no accident, and designed to appeal to Judge Persky. If the defense attorney had known the letters were likely to go viral, they would have been edited differently.
PG: I agree some people are bad seeds and I agree a whole lot of parenting outcomes are beyond our control. And I think we are all just plain lucky when our kids turn out to be good human beings.
However, it seems to me, even in this thread there are at least as many posts concerned with how Brock will be negatively impacted (for life) by his own actions, and concern for his family and friends, as there are posts concerned about the survivor and her family. If I get really bored, maybe I will go back and count. I do remember you were worried about the survivor’s sister. That was an eloquent and moving post.
Because I was raised to see the world through the male gaze, I generally start out very worried about the young man as well. I have to remind myself, he is the one at fault here. Everything that has happened is because of his actions.
I think this is really important media coverage. It’s too bad someone had to be made an example. I don’t see any way we change public perception other than to make someone an example. And again, he raped someone.
I bet if he apologized to the survivor for raping her, and his family expressed concern and remorse over him raping her… the tone of all this media coverage might change. And again, it might just be too little too late. Who knows?
adding: People get hurt during times of cultural upheaval. It seems inevitable. We can’t really stop it as far as I can tell, only hope it is worth the hurt. I think, on balance, it is here. jmho
adding: I’m cross posting with so many people!! I’m just too slow. sorry
“For me, the problem with the letter is the victim blaming insinuations and complete lack of empathy for the victim”
Isn’t the main thesis statement of these letters “X is a person of good character and should be dealt with leniently,” not “we agree x’s crime was horrific and we feel terribly for the victim”? Ask a different question, get a different essay.
Yes, the main point of the letters is humanizing the defendant. Victim blaming, however, is unusual and can backfire with judges. As I said above, many character letters don’t even mention the crime. In sentencing letters pursuant to a plea, talking about the defendant’s remorse would be part of the letter.
@carolinamom2boys If you want to swim at the elite level, yes, it’s very expensive. It’s years of private coaching with coaches who’ve previously coached championship or Olympic swimmers. And those coaches don’t come to you; you go to them, so it can mean moving the family across the country or maintaining two households.
Thanks for the clarification @LasMa
Since I don’t know (and knock on wood will never have to know) do defendants ever offer to meet with the victim personally (with whatever appropriate supervision, like her family or therapist) and apologize in person? Or is that not advisable, no matter how heartfelt? Not this case specifically - I mean in general. If so, does that get taken into account in sentencing?
If the victim had written a letter of “I am a forgiving person and I forgive him and don’t want to see his life ruined,” does that get taken into account? Keep in mind I am not at all saying a victim has to feel this way - just asking the hypothetical.
"However, it seems to me, even in this thread there are at least as many posts concerned with how Brock will be negatively impacted (for life) by his own actions, and concern for his family and friends, as there are posts concerned about the survivor and her family. "
Alh - it goes without saying I am concerned about the survivor and her family (and I like the use of survivor vs victim, will adopt that). Especially but not limited to the sister who felt guilty she couldn’t find her not knowing what was going on just a few feet away. That is the stuff of nightmares. And because I am an imperfect human being, I can picture scenarios where in the heat of anger one sister blames the other.
That said, compassion is not a zero sum game and I can also feel compassion for Brock’s parents whose lives are now also pretty much ruined, frankly. That doesn’t mean that I am horribly worried that Brock won’t get to swim at the Olympics or have a Stanford degree. That doesn’t keep me up at night at all.
Pizzagirl, The outcome of this case was exceedingly troubling to me (and many others). Turner was caught in the act of sexually assaulting someone. There were two eye witnesses. I found the sentence appalling and the the victim blaming by the family insulting. Unlike you, I am thrilled this case has lead to more discussion of consent and entitlement.
PG: I feel incredibly sorry for the whole Turner family, but think all this negative publicity serves a higher good.
jmho
I feel much worse for the survivor and her family. I admire so much how she has responded to her rape. She is not responsible for any of this. She is heroic.
Perhaps, and now with all the bullying and misquotes, and misinterpretations of the law and misunderstanding of the realities of sentencing and the misunderstanding about how the systems works and the cluelessness about the how the vast majorities of families would react in those shoes there’s no way anyone in that family would back down and reposition I don’t think…include the young man. It’s pretty much over for a news cycle as far as I’m concerned. The Stanford law professor got her 15 minutes of fame. The public got to express their anger with a petition even though the collection of signatures will have little baring on whether they can legally “oust” this judge. Everyone who wanted to, got to blogs, media outlets and social media to blame the parents, blame alcohol, blame whatever seemed blamable. The victim will get on with her life and her healing and ponder her alcohol consumption and her woulda, coulda shouldas and in September the guilty young man will go somewhere and ponder the same issues and his own set of woulda, coulda shouldas. If it makes society 'feel better" to think that their was an evil seed in this family or that his parents were “poor parents” or that middle class Ohio is somehow rife with drug addicted teenagers…whatever, makes zip difference to this particular case. But then, maybe someone will learn something…about alcohol and drugs in high schools, about the prevalence of binge drinking, about the cluelessness of our young people in handling their sex lives then all of the broo haha is worth it.
Related to the “apology” question, IIRC, there have been studies and and articles that when physicians admit medical errors (they are supposed to) and apologize, it can lead to fewer suits and/or lower settlements. Here is an article form a medical economics journal (yes… I know…) http://medicaleconomics.modernmedicine.com/medical-economics/content/tags/apology-laws/dealing-medical-mistake-should-physicians-apologize-pati
Rapists don’t generally rape because they can’t get laid in real life. I believe most rapists have plenty of opportunity to have sex with women, their wives, whatever.
Unrelated, from the article at http://abcnews.go.com/US/brock-turners-mother-foresaw-public-outcry-stanford-swimmer/story?id=39764068
Wowsers. I guess we can assume these were not CC parent posters.
momofthreeboys: while it may be over as far as you are concerned, I posted a link in #992 about Stanford students planning a graduation protest. It looks to me like the outrage is growing.
Link to the probation officer’s report submitted to the judge:
The survivor did write that she didn’t want to see him rot in jail. As far as a “public apology” from anyone in the Turner family I really don’t see that happening and we have zip knowledge about anything that isn’t public or been leaked to the public so what may or may not have transpired between the two families is unknown. If it hasn’t happened yet… at some point down the road, perhaps it will, but I suspect they are feeling pretty railroaded right now and probably media adverse.
My problem with the parents’ letters – they are blaming the verdict (and the victim) for ruining their son’s life, not his actions. If the letters had said, “My son up to this moment has been awesome, a great kid, he did one really really bad thing, he’s really really sorry he did it, he realizes that his bad actions ruined his life and the victim’s, please show some mercy” – then I’d have no problems with what they wrote. But they didn’t say that.
And I most definitely don’t consider anything we’ve said here, on this forum, to be bullying. That’s absurd. As much as I disapprove of the judge’s decision and the tone of the letters, the judge and the parents do not deserve death threats – which they’ve gotten. This whole trend of people emailing, tweeting and texting death threats has gotten out of control. But our conversation, where we explain why these letters are tone deaf, that’s not bullying.
I agree completely.
“One bad mistake shouldn’t define his son’s life.”
Yes humans make mistakes but you don’t always get 2nd chances in life and you are accountable for your actions.
This son was making bad choices since he was in high school. Was he overconfident in thinking he could continue with his behavior and not land into trouble? Was he exempt from having a moral compass because he was this star swimmer who got into Stanford and had dreams of going to the Olympics and becoming a doctor.
He was doing drugs. Previous to this incident he creeped out two girls with his aggressive behavior.
He was hitting on the victim’s sister at a party. He lied about his previous experience with drugs and alcohol.
He had bad intentions and unfortunately for him there were two witnesses who helped to save the girl. Had he not been caught would there have been another victim? What if the girl had died and her body was found the next day?
He didn’t learn to respect boundaries or women. He didn’t learn to be accountable for his actions. He didn’t see anything wrong is what he was doing. He didn’t realize that he had a lot to lose if he got caught. He was willing to take this risk. There are other son’s who drink and have fun but they wouldn’t think of raping someone. He crossed a line here that most people wouldn’t cross. Only he knows how many women he has approached before this incident. Not every girl who is raped is reporting it.
In one of my previous posts I included a link to what the punishment for rape is in different countries around the world.
Many of the countries had death(beheading, hanging, one shot to the head) or years of jail time as the punishment for rape. His family should be thanking god he only got 6 months but will be only serving 3 months. Yes they love their son and want to protect him but as hard as it is for them he has to be held accountable for his actions. When things get so out of hand then the only way to make him realize what he did was wrong is by facing the consequences. I am sensing here from some posters tolerance for this type of behavior.
We live in a society where a person’s accomplishments are valued more than their character.
Doesn’t matter he is a bad person because he is a doctor or he is an Olympic swimmer.
I disagree with that way of thinking. From childhood we have to teach our sons to respect women.
From childhood we need to teach our daughters how to protect themselves and what is acceptable as far as how a man treats them. A lot of that is learned by watching how parents interact with each other.
Men treat you wives with respect because your sons are learning how to treat a woman and you are modeling to your daughter the behavior that is acceptable for her in her own relationships. We can tell our daughters to be careful, limit drinking, avoid parties where we know alcohol is going to be flowing, don’t go alone, but how do we stop someone from putting something in their drink.
Many of you may disagree with my viewpoint and that is ok. We don’t all have to have the same view. I’m venting out my frustration because I don’t have the answers on how to protect my own daughter from these types of situations.