Forming a College List — a Little Lost

It’s normal to feel societal pressure!! But it is good that you can recognize it as societal pressure that is maladaptive and not in anyone’s best interest.

Someday when you have time, if you read the book “Excellent Sheep” you will feel much better.

(random: You know Obama was rejected by Swarthmore, ended up at Occidental (an excellent school) … he turned out Ok :slight_smile: )

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You get to have all the emotions the next week or so, then you will shake it off in early April and focus on making the best decision for your academic and developmental growth and your family’s finances.

There are highs and lows in this process that no one can fully explain and that you can’t relate to until you are deep into it. It is okay to feel frustrated, sad, relieved, thrilled, all of it.

You have a great perspective on this and you understand that what others think does not really matter, but you still get to grieve a little for the outcomes that did not go the way you hoped. Use all of that resilience that you developed challenging yourself in those tough classes to find your own path to success. If you feel things are getting a little toxic with peers and their record keeping, gravitate to those who are ready to move on from that. I work in a high school and senior year friend groups tend to shift around as they start to reset what they value. Many times they reconnect with someone they were better friends with in middle school or 9th grade that they had grown apart from over the years, but now just want to have someone to laugh with and not have all of the other pressures.

Know that great things will come your way. You need to discover opportunities at each of the colleges that have recognized your super powers. Because you have taken advanced classes you may have more time for research or internships or studying abroad. All of that work has prepared you for these next steps and will give you the confidence to keep going.

Enjoy the fun parts of senior year that are headed your way.

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I completely understand, but I also think from an outside perspective it is clear your identity is fully intact!

One of the things it took me a while to learn myself is strength of character is not shown most clearly when you immediately feel the right things, so doing the right things comes easy. Real strength of character is shown when despite what you know is right your feelings are not immediately in alignment, and then you do the right things anyway.

Hopefully eventually your feelings come around into alignment. And my experience is if you are true to your values they do tend to come around–but not necessarily right away.

And that’s OK, that’s part of being a human and it is not always easy. But if it was always easy it would be a lot less meaningful.

So again, from my perspective this is a real test of character for you, and in fact for many kids like you, the kids who on the one hand know they should not be swayed by peer competition and external expectations, and yet then in the middle of the college application process feel a lot of that anyway. But you also appear to me to be passing the test, you are feeling it but doing all the right things anyway.

So that is indicative to me of your strength of character, and I am pretty confident it will all feel a lot better soon too. But for now, for the moment, I really do believe you should be OK with the fact it does not immediately feel great, as long as you keep actually doing the right things.

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There are a lot of things I’d like to say to you, @lilyesh , and I know you are using this forum to process everything in real time – which is SO awesome.

So for now, all I’ll say is it’s not over yet AND you have some great options, so no matter how it ends, it’s going to have a happy ending.

I also fully endorse the recommendation above to read Excellent Sheep.

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Thank you so much to you and everyone else supporting me. Sometimes I feel lonely in this process as the oldest child of parents that didn’t really have any choices over where or if they went to college. A lot of kids have legacy or highly educated parents, but mine basically worked from the ground up. My dad put himself through JC and then state school. My mom wasn’t an academic and couldn’t even break 1000 on her SAT, so they really don’t know much except from what relatives tell us. I started talking to Union’s track coach, and the program seems like I would fit right in. We’re also going to visit and will stop by the coaches too. I get a lot of decisions back today but to be honest, I’m starting to like what I hear about Union. I’m only concerned about the strong Greek presence, but we’ll see. I want to go to grad school anyway and their undergrad program is still very good. Saving 120k on college, although it doesn’t matter too much to my family, is not something to take lightly. I can use that money to put towards a house or grad school.

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Union sounds like it is a great school for you!!

As for your worry: I attended a small LAC (not Union) a few decades ago that had a very heavy Greek presence, heavier than Unions, I believe, and I was not part of it. Sure, it was annoying at times, but I had a blast in college, made lots of friends, had an active social life, was involved in clubs, and had amazing classes and professors. And some of my good friends were in the Greek system - it didn’t matter to them or me (especially by our sophomore year).

My children (both of whom attend colleges w/o Greek life) report that in the absence of Greek Life, both of their colleges none-the-less have substitute social structures that provide students with in-groups (teams, clubs, etc.), and which often function very much like frats (in terms of parties, etc). Just to say - even at the most non-Greek campuses in the US (which for my money would be somewhere like St. John’s in Annapolis, or Reed, but I don’t know) I bet you will find evidence among some students of the very human tendency to separate into more or less exclusive in-groups.

TLDR: Greek or not, you’ll find structures of social exclusion everywhere, sadly. Don’t dismiss Union b/c of this! :slight_smile:

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As per the links I posted earlier, the Greek system at Union seems to be in the midst of a bit of a shakeup, with chapters being closed and so on. This could end up being a good thing, as far as people rethinking their options and reimagining what the social structures at the school can be.

Also, if you can be a walk-on for track/XC, that will likely play a big role in shaping your social circles.

If you really find yourself put off by the Greek presence, you still have Conn as a great Greek-free option. But if Union is the school that most resonates, I don’t think Greek life should be a deal-killer at all.

I completely agree that a six-figure discount (not to be confused with a six-finger discount, lol) is nothing to take lightly. It’s great that your family can afford full-pay, but as you say, there are so many other worthwhile uses for that money, and there’s nothing to say that a full-pay school would necessarily get you anywhere that Union (or Conn, or F&M, or SB) could not.

I had similar experiences with elitist attitudes when I was applying to college (long ago). My dad had wanted to go to Cornell (even longer ago!) but couldn’t afford it without a big scholarship, for which he was a finalist but not the winner. He attended a state flagship and did well enough in life that full-paying for my college was not a problem (although at today’s prices it would have been!)… and I got a lot of mixed messages, because on the one hand he wanted me to have what he couldn’t, but on the other hand he felt the sting of being looked down on himself for his “non-elite” education. I also attended high schools where the college one attended was very much seen as indicative of one’s worth. It was all pretty toxic, and you’re much more self-aware about unpacking that toxicity than I was at the time.

So, I know how painful this stuff can be. But I also think that it’s an emotional trial-by-fire that isn’t without meaning and value. Be clear-eyed about the fact that if you had one of the “trophy” acceptances you wanted, the good feelings you would have about yourself as a result would be at someone else’s expense, because it would all be about feeling “better than” those who attended “lesser” schools. Further, look at your own father, and how well he’s done in life after working his way through a much “lesser” school than Union - do you look down on him, or want to buy into the attitudes of those who would? The kind of validation you’re missing out on is shallow and unfair anyway, and your words show that, as your best self, you know that. Your worth and potential don’t depend on attending a “better” college than someone else, or indeed on being “better” than someone else at all. Not taking this shortcut to self-worth can only benefit you in the long run. You will learn to respect and value yourself for the right reasons. Many people who drink the kool-aid of elitism never do.

(Also, Google “growth mindset” vs. “fixed mindset” and the research of Carol Dweck- your words about studying and IQ indicate that this is an area to work on, and it’s very much connected to the mindset of college elitism.)

I look forward to hearing what you decide, and seeing how things go for you at the school you choose. I hope you’ll come back and offer your perspective to future students who face the same struggles you’re going through now. Because I am confident that you’ll get past this difficult stage and be able to say that everything worked out for the best!

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Personally, I’d be more likely to regret a poor college choice more so than I would lament admission decisions controlled by others. For additional perspective, in this interview, a prominent figure states, when taking the Proust Questionnaire, that his college choice has been his “greatest regret”:

In your case, you will be able to make a fully informed decision from among at least a few appealing schools. Choose wisely.

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Rejection after waitlist and it continues. This sucks.

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got into colgate! my GC said she thought I would. But this is exciting, because it’s still competitive!!!

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Congrats - but don’t forget, you’ve already gotten into really strong and really hard to get into schools - so don’t be so tough on yourself. Seriously.

You’ve already gotten into a who’s who of top colleges - and hopefully you end up at the one perfect for you.

Prestigious doesn’t = right fit.

Congrats on Colgate - obviously it’s very different than Union.

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Congratulations! Hopefully that’s a bit of an ego boost. Whether Colgate is worth more than $100K extra over Union with the Scholars opportunity is a question that you will now have to hash out… plus Colgate is D1, so I’m thinking you probably wouldn’t be able to be on the team there? (Or is it still possible you could?) Maybe it’s a case of, be happy with all that Union is offering and go with that, but feel good about the Colgate acceptance. Either way, congrats!

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I can still run at Colgate :). And we will assess the cost worthiness. My parents heard that Union is experiencing financial struggles though - which I don’t know if it is true, but is concerning. Regardless, it’s nice to have another option to choose from.

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and sometimes it just feels nice to be wanted. an ego boost a little :joy:

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Forbes still gives Union an A+ financial rating, FWIW. Colgate and F&M both get an A+ too, and Conn College gets an A, which is still more than fine. I don’t think you should have financial-stability worries about any of these schools. (Source: Forbes 2023 College Financial Grades: The Nation’s Strongest And Weakest Schools)

Indeed, it’s nice both to be wanted and to have choices! :tada:

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Great that you have yet another good option. You are going to land someplace where you will thrive! Very exciting.

You guys are so incredibly supportive. Everytime I’m feeling bad I just remember the CC family and how kind you have been to me 🩷

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Union is A1 by Moody’s - very strong - but has just been put on negative watch - which means there’s a 1-3 chance it could get downgraded in the next, I think, two years - which would likely be to BAA1 - which is still very strong.

I would have near zero concern about Union’s financial stability. These ratings are for lenders or bondholders, etc.

The fact that they are not looking to borrow money; i.e. through revenue sources and the endowment, they have their finances covered - shows they are fine.

If things did get really bad and they’re not even at step one bad, then they’d have a bigger fundraising campaign.

But just because a rating agency takes an action, doesn’t mean the agency is right.

And in this case the action has zero impact because they have no current plans to borrow money. If they did, they might have to pay a tad higher in interest rate.

Most private colleges tap the bond market - which is why they hire someone like Moody’s to rate them.

You can look for reasons that a certain school might not be right for you, but on the list you’ve mentioned so far, financial stability shouldn’t be one of them.

Union College given ‘negative outlook’ by credit analyst Moody’s (timesunion.com)

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I haven’t been saying much because others have written in first, and far more eloquently than I would have. I just wanted to say how impressed I am with your self-awareness. Understanding and working to resolve that conflict between what you believe and how you feel combined with your positive attitude toward the acceptances you have already received shows how far ahead of the game you really are. I’m wishing you the very best and look forward to hearing where you decide to attend!

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Congrats on all your great options!

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