Fourth year Math class consideration

Applying to College
1

<p>My state only requires three years of math for high school graduation. However, our guidance department always recommends a fourth year because “that’s what college’s want.” However many students (seniors by now) are not actually interested, they do very little, and earn their D or F. </p>

<p>My question is this: would a middle of the road college really prefer a grade of D or F in a fourth year math class over a (slightly) better grade in some other elective? I can not imagine this would be so but apparently that’s what many students and counselors believe.</p>

<p>My concern is that I, as a teacher, then have to try to teach mathematics to completely unmotivated seniors. At best, they consume class resources. At worst, when they feel they have to provide alternate entertainment for the other students, they are a detriment.</p>

2

<p>A D or F is enough to keep a student out of quite a large portion of my state’s colleges. They could get an acceptance rescinded. I can’t imagine that any would like to see it. It is quite strange that students aren’t expected to pass at your HS. This must drag their gpa down quite a bit too. I can’t help but agree with you. I don’t see how the college would view a F in math in any other way but a huge negative and at best it is as if they haven’t taken it at all. What state is this?</p>

3

<p>Well, they are expected to pass, but our school follows the state (New Jersey) guidelines and requires that they only have to pass three years of math. Most seniors that take a math class do try to pass, but a few realize that they don’t have too so they coast. When we ask their counselor, “Why is Joe even taking this class?”, the counselor responds, “Oh, he wants to go to college and colleges want four years of math.”</p>

4

<p>This doesn’t pass the ‘sniff test’. This is either a student asking the question, posing as the teacher for some bizarre reason, who has their facts mixed up…
OR someone who is terribly bored.</p>

5

<p>In Washington State students are required to have three years of math credits to graduate but the state colleges like to see 4 years of HS math. The least selective state university in Washington State requires 3 years of math but wants students to take math their senior year unless they’ve passed a higher level math course prior to their senior year:</p>

<p>[EWU</a> | Freshman Admission Requirements](<a href=“Freshman - Eastern Washington University”>Freshman - Eastern Washington University)</p>

<p>The University of Washington has the following senior year math requirement:</p>

<p>[College</a> Academic Distribution Requirements (CADR) | University of Washington](<a href=“http://admit.washington.edu/Admission/Freshmen/CADR#math-based-quantitative]College”>http://admit.washington.edu/Admission/Freshmen/CADR#math-based-quantitative)</p>

<p>"If completed in high school </p>

<p>This requirement is for freshman applicants only.</p>

<p>The goal of this requirement is to have students take a meaningful math or quantitative course during the senior year, so that their skills don’t atrophy. More important, math opens doors: students who continue to study math throughout high school will find they have the widest choices when it comes to majors when they enter the UW. </p>

<p>One credit of math-based quantitative coursework is required in the senior year. This requirement may be met in many ways:
• If the third year of the minimum mathematics CADR is being completed in the senior year, such as intermediate algebra (Algebra II) or Integrated Math III
• By completing an advanced level math course (pre-calculus, math analysis, calculus)
• By completing a math-based quantitative course (statistics)
• By completing an algebra-based science course (chemistry, physics) </p>

<p>In some cases, a single course may fulfill two requirements. For example, a single chemistry course with a lab taken in the senior year may apply toward the lab science requirement as well as the Senior Year Math-Based Quantitative course requirement. </p>

<p>If made up through college coursework </p>

<p>Comparable college courses in math (for example, pre-calculus) or science (chemistry, physics ) will meet the requirement."</p>

6

<p>Any student who decides to let their grade slide to a D or F because they already have the required credits for graduation, and are only taking it “because colleges like to see four years of math” deserve to get everything that’s going to come their way. </p>

<p>If OP is really a teacher, your job is to teach the class and provide help in any way you can to students who ask for it - you aren’t there to provide motivation and automatically pass them with a good grade because they are seniors - end of story. Bad behavior has its consequences, let them experience it.</p>

7

<p>IF the OP were really a teacher they wouldn’t be seeking advise here.</p>

8

<p>The OP is a teacher and he is not bored. He wishes to have a sit-down with his guidance department to convince them to not to put students into a math class their senior year if they have no motivation to learn math. He was hoping to have some authoritative feedback (e.g., from an admissions officer) that a D or F in math during senior year was counterproductive. College Confidential was suggested by his spouse (a college professor, also not bored) to see if someone on the forum could give the feedback he was looking form. The OP has to admit that so far, he is disappointed.</p>

9

<p>I just can’t for the life of me, in any situation, imagine my sons math teacher here looking for college adcoms to solve a professional problem, while talking in the third person. </p>

<p>I’ll bite, college adcoms aren’t going to weigh in on something like this. If you want their input call them directly. I don’t think that’s your battle to fight honestly. If the students want to sit and do nothing, fail them. Either the students, parents, or administration will seek a change or not. Discipline issues in your class are your concern no matter the grade, or placement of the student. That’s what you address. You don’t control who signs up for the class and who doesn’t. Every teacher would love to cherry pick only the most motivated students to teach. It doesn’t work like that, even with an elective math class. Again, your choice is a failing grade and appropriate disiplinary action applied to all students. </p>

<p>People concerned about admissions ask around what’s worked before. Word will get out if the kids getting D’s and F’s are impacted in admissions and people will adjust, weather by taking the class seriously or chosing a different elective. It’s not up to you to engineer this ‘correction’. If it’s as significant as you say then students will start to make other choices.</p>

10

<p>I will take your advice and contact some admins directly. I though CC could help, but apparently I was misinformed. Sorry to waste your time.</p>

11

<p>No a D or an F in a senior math class is definitely not better than an A or B in American government or AP Biology or something. </p>

<p>But the idea is that theoretically, students aiming for top to mid-ranked colleges (including respected public universities) will take your senior year math class and do well, of course. Those students to a certain extent, expected to have taken four years of math in high school, even if the state only requires three years.</p>

<p>I doubt that a sit-down with your school’s guidance department is going to be much of a help, since that doesn’t change the fact that most good colleges want four years of math from students in order for them to be competitive, especially if students want merit scholarships. It may be more productive to have a come-to-Jesus moment with some of your slacker students. Either way, I’m pretty sure that a small number of students with low/motivation is kind of a part of the job for any teacher.</p>