<p>I love UVA, don’t get me wrong, but c’mon…this is RIDICULOUS. Thank goodness I never slipped and got my diploma.</p>
<p>Barboza’s post (#32) is very interesting to me. Does anyone have any more factual information as to what may be happening in this circumstance? Is there any reason or way that the ipod theft by a UVa first year student would NOT be a violation of the honor code? Does a student (vs police) have to report the crime to proceed thru the system?
Also, is anyone aware of a reliable source of information re: honor court actions?</p>
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<p>Well, what we waiting for?</p>
<p>Is action on her being blocked because of Mary’s influence? </p>
<p>Then let each of us go up and file a complaint next week, and should we fail, we make a facebook group.</p>
<p>This is a very unsightly blemish on the face of UVA right now, which happens to be a critical time of admissions as voiced above by colleclassof2013.
I plead to the powers-that-be>>please handle the issue in question, expeditiously, fairly, and with compassion.
If there is a hint of unfair influences (as voiced in other posts) someone needs to take control and navigate this to a fair, and final conclusion.<br>
This is NOT a private issue, FWIW. Everyone is watching, and hence it is vital that this matter is handled correctly.</p>
<p>colleclassof2013 - The real world has all the same problems, people get away with murder, you can’t catch them all unfortunately.</p>
<p>caseyatbat - Sure ipod theft can be an honor violation if it is reported and enough information is there for a case.</p>
<p>A few of you seem to have a personal agenda for this thread so I won’t be saying in response, for those reading the thread just take these posts with a grain of salt. If you seriously believe the jury was tampered, then go take it up with the administration, venting on a public forum does no one any good.</p>
<p>I will just reiterate that most of the issues being brought up are to be dealt with by UJC and the local police and NOT honor. Also I’m pretty sure sexual harassment is dealt with separately.</p>
<p>I agree with powderpuff that this situation is going to have a significant impact on the incoming class. This incident may lower yield, but it will probably also cause students to think twice before lying, stealing, or cheating. </p>
<p>My personal thoughts on this matter is that although the poor fellow may have lied, no human is perfect. I don’t think this misdemeanor shouldn’t result in expulsion. Do other colleges really expel students for lying? I mean who doesn’t lie. Most of the time, we do not say what we really believe because we don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. For example if one of your friends, lets call her Mary haha, got a haircut and it didn’t look good but just to be nice to her you say it looks fine, does that merit expulsion if you then tell one of your other friends that Mary haircut is UGLY and word gets out to Mary that you said that?</p>
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No, it does not. Those outside UVa probably don’t realize that the jury has to find the student guilty of two things: an honor offense and non-triviality. Lying about how someone’s hair looks is trivial.</p>
<p>From [the</a> Honor Committee website](<a href=“http://www.virginia.edu/honor/about.html]the”>http://www.virginia.edu/honor/about.html):
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<p>class2009college
You just made me spit out my drink in laughter about “Mary’s” haircut! Wise choice in the name of “Mary” for your scenario. To be honest, I have no clue as to who this individual is?<br>
Hey, UVA is a great place, I love it here. It’s gorgeous in CVL, great classes; and I’m sorry that you are seeing a bit of our dirty laundry.<br>
I’ll be a third year student next Fall and that almost makes me cry to think that my time is on the down slope. This place is heaven, (except for iPod theft,and similar stuff, and something about “Mary”). 
Since you’ve been accepted to UVA, I have no doubt that you are a great student.
Every place, person has its positives and negatives
Here’s a link to what UVA is like in the Spring:
[YouTube</a> - UVA Streaking Time - Uptight](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Em1l9Mf50]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Em1l9Mf50)</p>
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<p>Well, the university says anyone who lies, cheats or steals must leave the university. So if Mary really believed in upholding the honor system, shouldn’t she press charges against her sorority sister, Taylor Critz, for stealing an i-pod? What’s more shameful is that this is a clear case of violating the honor code by definition and one that is on public record; yet Mary Siegel, or anyone in the honor committee, hasn’t pressed charges against her. Rape by definition isn’t subject to honor offenses, so that is dealt separately. </p>
<p>The timing of this case is unfortunate, so I think the administration must step up to remove Mary Siegel and dismiss the case immediately.</p>
<p>Right on. Stealing an Ipod is non-trivial. Just go to Clemons or Alderman, people leave their laptops, ipods, wallets and backpacks unattended for hours. If we are going to be so harsh on this guy, this girl who stole the Ipod needs to be kicked out of UVA because her behavior impairs the community of trust. No one would be able to leave their stuff unattended anymore if this girl was walking around the libraries trying to snatch someone’s Mac or Ipod.</p>
<p>[Remove</a> Mary Siegel from Honor | Facebook](<a href=“Redirecting...”>Redirecting...)</p>
<p>For anyone interested.</p>
<p>Wow, momentum for this gathered impetus quickly.</p>
<p>The other nauseating thing is that there’s something rotten about the state of the elections and student government. And remember all the previous alumni funding to flood Grounds with merchandise (like mugs/T-shirts, not just flyers) to uphold the rotten status quo and single sanction, drowning out all other opposition? (The student reform groups had no such funding.) </p>
<p>And I wonder how in the world Mary ever got into her position. Her ads were obnoxious (look at me! all namechalk, pretty-smiley face and no platform!) and come actual voting, her listed platform was vague and trite; now her suspected air of insincerity is confirmed.</p>
<p>She had the support of the greek system, so she would win anyway. As to how she got endorsed by Minority Rights Coalition, I have no idea… but take a look at her video:</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.student.virginia.edu/elections/guide/candidate.php?oid=1815&cid=642[/url]”>https://www.student.virginia.edu/elections/guide/candidate.php?oid=1815&cid=642</a></p>
<p>The MRC endorses candidates much too whimsically. (How about the fact that most of the endorsed candidates couldn’t even name all the groups in the MRC.)</p>
<p>The more I read about this case the more problematic it seems. Here is what I do not understand; Mary is deeply entrenched the system. Mary brings an honor violation. Mary testifies. During this time shouldn’t it be necessary for Mary to completely recuse herself from any participation in the process during this time?</p>
<p>Is it a shame that a fourth year student got kicked out? Yes. Still, no one has explained why a jury of our peers was wrong in finding him guilty for lying about a class assignment. No one has explained why his action is trivial, or why it does not violate the community of trust. Some people are just venting their frustration that a system they don’t like is supported by a silent majority of students. I remind you guys that single-sanction shows up in referendums constantly and is constantly reaffirmed (this year by 70% of students).</p>
<p>As for cases of fake IDs, underage drinking, and sexual assault, these issues are handled by the police and UJC; they don’t fall under honor. And as for the iPod thief, I have no idea why she is still here. </p>
<p>As for people “rethinking” their college decisions, the only reason to do so is if you plan on being dishonest and dishonorable. Those who do not lie, cheat, and steal are not hurt–they are benefitted.</p>
<p>^The jury was right in convicting him, but the punishment does not at all fit the crime. What message does this send to the students of UVa, prospective students and Virginia in general? </p>
<p>No one “plans” on being dishonest or dishonorable. It’s just what if something happens and you’re convicted? Your whole life would be ruined…</p>
<p>It always concerns me when kids have so much power over other kids.</p>
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<p>If you want to bring up triviality… is blatantly cheating on a homework worth say 10% of a grade in a three credit class considered trivial? yes, it is (having seen this both from the jury and reporting persective).</p>
<p>Or here’s another sample perspective… suppose a final exam (say 30% in a 3cr) is full of essays, and say 2/3 students copied it word-for-word. Each one will be tried individually and each one will say “i had no idea the other(s) were copying from me”. Result - each one will be found fully innocent.</p>
<p>I can rant on about why UVa Honor is broken for far longer…</p>
<p>(I’m currently a 4th year, having TA’d a couple of courses for a number of semesters)</p>
<p>^What if “something” happens? You mean…you are dishonest or dishonorable? That is a choice you make when you do “something”. And it is a choice you are very clearly told HOW to choose when you decide to attend UVa. Like goyanks says–the single sanction code is constantly reaffirmed by a majority of students at the school. You know what you are agreeing to abide by BEFORE you choose those “somethings”.</p>
<p>This is an extremely unfortunate situation. But it is an example of the system that works the way it is supposed to. And it is an integral part of UVa–like it or not.</p>
<p>To me, this is really all about the never-ending controversy of whether a single-sanction honor code is still relevant.</p>
<p>And I’d still like to hear more about that Ipod situation and if she will be brought up before honor also. If the facts are as reported, how could she possibly escape going to trial? I think that inconsistent justice completely discredits the system.</p>