<p>After reading the thread on the car-sale mom, I started thinking.</p>
<p>Is there a higher percentage of fairly permissive, “flower-child” type parents here than in the general population? </p>
<p>I didn’t see anything wrong with the ad the mom posted. It reminded me of the Pokemon card posting on ebay. I didn’t give it a second thought, except to think “way to go mom.” Then I got on these boards and read posts from people who think it was practically tantamount to child abuse.</p>
<p>One of the dad’s on our street took a sledgehammer to the xbox of the child who disobeyed the restrictions that he had assigned once too often. Extreme? Certainly. But the kid got the message.</p>
<p>I see posts from parents who think that almost ANY real-world type consequence is just too mean for a teen. There are posts either describing a parent swooping in to “rescue” a child from a predicament of their own making, or that the child could handle himself, with guidance, or justifying and excusing behaviors that would get you a serious consequence in my home.</p>
<p>I’m reading the story of 3 “lost boys of the Sudan” in “They poured fire on us from the sky.” Getting embarrassed because a parent makes public a really bad choice and its consequences doesn’t seem like the WORST thing that can happen to a kid, in the grand scheme of things. And I think of Hulk Hogan’s son, who had been stopped more than once for speeding (REALLY FAST) who ended up wrapping a car around a tree and putting a friend into a coma. If his parents had taken his license or the car, or both, the friend wouldn’t be looking at a lifetime of institutional care. And if that restriction had become public. I still think it would have been worth it. There are worse things that an embarrassed teen.</p>
<p>Anyway, I see some posts from parents who seem to want to protect their children from unpleasantness (either in school or whatever) at almost any cost. That’s their right, and their choice. My question is, is there a higher percentage of such parents here on CC than in the general population? Is it a good thing, in terms of the kids getting into and succeeding in college? (It may be. I really am sincerely asking)</p>
<p>Anyway, I see some posts from parents who seem to want to protect their children from unpleasantness (either in school or whatever) at almost any cost</p>
<p>How is not thinking of publicly humiliating your child in the national media( including television) “overprotecting them?”</p>
<p>I do agree however- that if students choices affect their choice of college or work- they need to learn it by experiencing it. We can’t micromanage all their decisions and expect them to learn that “consequences happen”</p>
<p>I go back to “learning while the consequences are still small,” which, for me, means allowing kids to suffer the consequences of their actions and learn from them early, before they are life-altering in the sense of landing them in jail or getting fired.</p>
<p>This mom may or may not have gone overboard. But the general idea of the kid losing his car because he broke a major rule **related to that car **seems OK to me. And having that ad in the local paper to serve as a further lesson is not something I would do, but I get that, too. After that, it appears that this took on a life of its own: one the mother could not have anticipated.</p>
<p>In defense of myself, even though I never attacked the woman (as far as I’m concerned it’s her family, her son, her relationship- not for me to tell HER what to do), but did say I would have done it differently…
I agree wholeheartedly that the kid shouldn’t be allowed to drive if he is going to abuse the privilege by drinking while driving. I just take a more private approach toward disciplining our children- I don’t do it in public. I would definitely revoke my son’s driving privileges, however, just not advertise it. “What goes on in the XXXX house, stays in the XXXX house.” I’m also about as far away from being a flower child as it gets. LOL.</p>
<p>The mom herself, it appears, didn’t mean for the ad to draw the attention it did, and apologized to her son. </p>
<p>But, I think I know what you are talking about. I have seen a lot in real life. Don’t think it is any more rampant here on CC, unfortunately, than in our culture in general. Some of the things I’ve seen others do IRL: A parent writing college papers for her son. A parent throwing a fit when her child wasn’t cast as the lead in a play (because she donated so much money, how could this happen?) A parent insisting that a B be changed to an A. A parent taking a vacation during a concert and expecting her child not to get the grade drop that other kids get for missing a performance. Lots more instances of <em>smother love</em>, that’s just a sampling. </p>
<p>I just realized that these things were all done by women!</p>
<p>It does seem to me that parents these days go a lot further trying to <em>fix</em> everything for their kids than they ever did before.</p>
<p>mom2three, I got the same impression you did reading the responses to that post here on CC. We discussed the car sales 'Evil Mom" in my office and with my neighbors. The resounding response was overwhelming support for the mom. No one I talked to thought the mom was overbearing or abusive. However, most felt to continue running the ad after the car was sold was a bit overboard.</p>
<p>I love my mom to death, and she’s a wonderful person and mother, and we have a pretty great relationship. But I do not trust her with private info as far as I can throw her. For example, if our kids were to do something naughty as children, it was guaranteed that everyone else in the family (in laws, siblings, cousins) would know about it by month’s end. To this day, she can be sitting at a family reunion or party and will say stuff like, “Doubleplay did this or that when she was 16!” (something I’m not proud of…). I could just die when she does that- I’m 47 years old, for crying out loud. She’s been like that all her life, and the car ad thing is something I could see her doing.</p>
<p>Yes, I love her, but her inability to keep things private HAS affected our relationship. I share very little information with her about the grandchildren and us (H and I)- as little as possible. So that’s probably why I’m so private in my own dealings with my children. I don’t want to be the mother/grandmother that they can’t talk to about the bad things as well as the good things.</p>
<p>As an employer, I see lots of young adults who have been raised by parents who think that any real world consequence is too harsh. Those young adults have a very hard time transitioning into the real world. For instance, if you call in sick, guess what? Your check will be smaller that pay period…I laughingly call myself the Mormon Mother at work because it seems I have a lot of children… (no offense to Mormons…).</p>
<p>I do not have problem with real world consequences. I do have a problem with teaching that the way to correct the child is through more inappropriate or destructive behavior. For example, when I was about 8 or 9, I was frustrated with a homework assignment. My mother tried to help me to understand it, but I just did not understand what I was supposed to do. Out of frustration I broke a pencil in half. I was sent to my room for breaking something because I was frustrated. Now, as an adult, I do not find it appropriate to take a hammer to my child’s xbox. I have never destroyed property since I broke that pencil, LOL. I would have no problem in selling the xbox. I also have no problem that this mother sold her son’s car. I find that an appropriate consequence for what he did. I have a problem with her blabbering about it in the news. Bottom line, consequences are good, but one should be careful about what other lessons are taught in the process. The car mom could also have suffered the natural consequence of destroying her relationship with her child. The xbox dad might have taught his son that if you don’t like what someone is doing, you have a right to destroy their belongings, and you will not suffer a consequence for doing so.</p>
<p>Yes, it is okay to apologize to your kid on national T.V. Doesn’t mean that what she did was okay in my book. But an apology means that she has admitted she made an error in handling this, and that is good, I think. </p>
<p>At any rate, once it has drawn that kind of attention, what are your options? Apologizing in front of millions seems like one of the best things one could do at that point. Better than not apologizing. I don’t know exactly when she apologized, actually. Maybe it was on T.V., maybe not. She mentioned that she had apologized, though, in one of the articles that someone here linked to.</p>
<p>Apologies mean something to me. And so does forgiveness. What are we without those things? Sure it would be better not to ever do anything wrong. But who here can say they’ve never made a mistake? Offended someone? Done something that they wished they hadn’t? Used bad judgment?</p>
<p>Some people think that once someone has crossed a line, there can be no forgiveness, and will not accept an apology, even a heart felt one. But where does that leave you? If a kid and his mom can’t forgive each other, who can?</p>
<p>Someone pointed out that the kid looked happy enough to be on T.V. Their family. Their dynamic. I like to think they worked it out. And that both learned something from the situation.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s a good idea to destroy a child (or anyone’s) possessions. Confiscate it, sell it, give it to charity or whatever. I can’t quite put my finger on why the destroying thing seems wrong to me but it does if for no other reason than it is wasteful. It has a violent feel to me. But I do agree with the OP that there are too many parents who do not set appropriate consequences and are unwilling to be the “bad guy”. It is possible to be a firm disciplinarian without humiliating a kid or destroying things. That said, if a kid repeatedly tested the limits, they might find something humiliating happening. I remember reading an article where the author said she looked her kid in the eye and told him if his grades did not improve ASAP, she was going to show up at his high school and go to every one of his classes with him. He said, “You would quit your job?” and she said, “Believe me when I say that nothing is more important to me than your education.” She did not have to follow through but he believed that she would. In that case, she gave him a choice – shape up or face humiliation. I think that was great parenting because it was not humiliation for the sake of humiliation it was “I love you enough to come down there and make sure you are doing what you need to be doing”.</p>
<p>I have no problem with what the mother did- if he was old enough to have booze in the car- his or not- he is old enough to deal with the fallout</p>
<p>She didn’t need to apologize - her son should have appologized to his community instead of being treated like some sort of victim</p>
<p>If it had been my child, he’d absolutely have lost the car - I’d have sold or donated it. I would not, however, have made the situation public with a cutesy ad. I think this mom may have been (very justifiably) furious with her irresponsible kid, and channeled some of her anger into writing the ad. Don’t know about everyone else, but when I act out of anger, I do dumb stuff I regret later. I don’t think that public humiliation has a place in disciplining my kids. And they’ve turned out great, thanks! If I had an incorrigible, I might feel differently.
<p>I didn’t comment on the original thread, but I definitely reject the dichotomy that not approving of ridicule/humilation is equal to permissiveness. My kids were brought up with a logical consequences approach which we held to firmly, and seems to have worked pretty well. I would never stoop to humiliation and embarrassment–that’s a cheap power play, not a logical consequence.</p>
<p>And, it’s been my obervation, that many kids I know who acted out the worst had the most rigidly authoritarian parents. The parents who seem to have the best results are neither permissive nor authoritarian.</p>
<p>Back to the OP’s question: I have no idea whether CC posters are more lenient in the discipline dept. than other parents, but I do feel like in general society there seems to be more queasiness about setting boundaries with kids these days.</p>
<p>Over the holidays I was at a party with about two dozen wonderful, smart women, and one of the them – definitely the youngest there – talked about a study she was participating in with her two children, 1 and 3. It had to do with parenting techniques. The things she was espousing made me want to crack up, but I managed to maintain my composure and exchange knowing glances with some of the other women. I hope that those techniques work for her, but sitting in timeout with my child doesn’t sound like something I would do.</p>
<p>It’s hard to comment out of context when we don’t know the individuals. Some kids learn by being told no. Some kinds don’t even respond to dire negative consequences that actually happen.</p>
<p>I would certainly never do what this mother did, but since all children are individuals one response doesn’t work for all kids.</p>
<p>That said, I have to admit that I am definitely one of those mothers who softened the way for her children, particularly her son. His ADDness did make me rush in and rescue him many times. I was probably very wrong, but he was not capable at that time of fending for himself. </p>
<p>No, I am trying, and so far succeeding (but this is a fairly new behavior on my part) to take a hands-off approach. He has just turned eighteen and his belongs to himself, not to me. So it’s his life to navigate.</p>
<p>But I can say mea culpa here, I’m guilty. And yup, gotta admit it, ex-flower child.</p>
If I had an incorrigible, I might feel differently.