Franklin Olin College vs UMich (CoE)

I’m trying to decide between attending Olin and UMich for electrical engineering/ece. It costs about the same for me to attend both schools, so cost isn’t a priority for me.

Olin: Crazy unique experience and amazing application of engineering, but super small and I’m not sure how easy it is to get a job/internship out of Olin because of how new it is. Not sure if there is much wiggle room in terms of advanced courses because it’s undergrad only; I don’t plan on going straight to grad school, and Olin seems like a gateway for grad school?

UMich: Well-rounded, awesome college experience. Lots of money and resources for research/jobs. Not as flexible with independent works because of school size and preference for grad/older students?

I have experience with the learning style at Olin–I’ve worked on a couple of electronics projects on my own, in a very do-then-learn fashion. But I’m concerned that I might lose the technical foundation I would get at an institution like UMich. I’m pretty set on ECE and both schools are great options. :-S

I am fairly certain that internships/job placement out of Olin are very good, unless you decide to work in a field other than Engineering, in which case, Michigan may be more versatile. But in technical fields, I can imagine Olin engineers do very well. It is not longer that new. I would go purely for fit. They are so different. Which one do you see yourself being happier at?

Here is Olin’s Post Graduate site for employment and grad school data for each class

http://www.olin.edu/content/results/

As you will see, far more graduates go straight to work than to grad school. The companies that hire Olin graduates are quite top drawer.

For a more enjoyable, all around collegiate experience, I suggest Michigan.

I would not worry about not having “advanced” classes at Olin or finding a job. The only worry would be about fit. Olin is next door to Babson (another unique, very small school) and a shuttle away from Wellesley. I think they mingle but I have no idea on how that resembles life in a more traditional college. I would say if you are not “crazy” about Olin maybe is not for you???

Technical foundation???

Olin is as much ABET accredited as Michigan is.

I agree with @am9799- if you’re not head over heels in love with Olin, than maybe it’s not the right school for you. You needn’t have any concerns about the education you’ll get there . . . but their football team sucks. :frowning:

^^ Couldn’t be much worse than Michigan’s football team last season :stuck_out_tongue:

^^^^Except we now have HARBAUGH. :slight_smile:

Give Olin serious consideration. As far as getting internships, companies recruit heavily on campus. My daughter is a junior ECE and has had internships with Lockheed Martin and Microsoft. This summer she has one lined up with Athenahealth. Companies are lining up for Olin interns and with a little effort it not a matter of whether you can get an internship, but narrowing down your choices. The school, being small, has a culture of getting students ready for internships and jobs. There are multiple job fairs on campus every year and students, starting freshman year, attend. From early on, students participate in mock job interviews and are then well prepared for the process.

As far as education, Olin is top notch. I do not believe you are sacrificing technological knowledge, but what you are gaining is learning what it is to be an engineer and how to be a lifetime learner.

If you are serious about engineering, I suggest you pick up David Goldberg and Mark Sommerville’s book, A Whole New Engineer. It is available at Amazon.

The Olin Post Graduate Planning(PGP) department is exceptionally and intensely involved in helping undergraduates obtain internships. Being so small, students are on a first name basis with the PGP staff.

Thanks so much! I’ll be revisiting both schools :slight_smile:

Michigan’s football team may suck right now, but to football fans here in Massachusetts, all that matters is that they gave us Tom Brady :smile:

As an ECE alum of both Tufts (Olin’s provost/dean used to head up Tufts ME department) and our state flagship I will try to provide some information to help you figure out the best fit. To complete the circle, Tufts’ current dean of engineering was a Collegiate Professor of Environmental Engineering at Michigan.

As @alexandre suggests, these two schools are at almost opposite ends of the spectrum of engineering education.

Here is some context:

In terms of size, just the population of undergraduates at UMich (~28,000) is greater than the entire population of the town in which Olin resides.(~26,000).

The population of undergraduates in Michigan’s school of engineering (~5800) is larger than the entire undergraduate population at Tufts (~5000, ~800 of which are engineers) and almost 20 times the population of Olin (~325). Olin is about equal to the size of the engineering enrollment at Harvey Mudd (Mudd’s total enrollment is ~800).

The entire campus at Michigan is 21,000 acres, the main campus is 3,177 acres and it has 280 acres of parking lots.The entire campus at Olin is 70 Acres - which is equal to one quarter the size of Michigan’s parking lots.

You could throw in Tufts’ main campus (150 acres) and Harvey Mudd’s campus (38 acres) and it would still be less than the area of Michigan’s parking lots.

The distance between Michigan’s North and Central campuses is about 2.5 miles. The distance between Olin and Wellesley College is about 1.5 miles and the distance between Tufts and Harvard is about 2 miles. Babson is adjacent to Olin and the Claremont colleges (Pomona, CMC, Scripps ant Pitzer) are all adjacent.

Olin is best thought of as a small Engineering LAC much like Tuft’s School of Engineering and similar to Harvey Mudd (which is more of a STEM-LAC). Olin, like Mudd, is a member of a consortium (Babson-Olin-Wellesley), but the coupling with Wellesley is not as close.

Like a traditional LAC; Mudd, Tufts and Olin are all teaching focused (although Tufts has some small Phd programs- one of which is in engineering education) and all are on the forefront of engineering education reform. Michigan is more of a large, highly regarded, traditional engineering factory/research university.

An Engineering LAC differs in it’s approach to undergrad engineering education relative to the traditional engineering factory in that it has more of an emphasis on: breadth of knowledge outside the engineering discipline, critical thinking skills, and communication skills. The trade-off is that, since there are only so many hours in a day, there are fewer hours available for learning pure engineering skills. The engineering LACs tend to be more interdisciplinary in their approach (which is easier to do when you are small) and the engineering factories/research universities tend to have more depth of offerings within a discipline (which is easier to do when you are large). It is also easier to do hands-on project-based learning (rather than large lectures) when you are small.

In my opinion, a combination of an Engineering LAC for undergrad and a research university (such as Michigan) for a masters is the best preparation for industry. If you want to go into academia (which represents a very small percentage of available jobs) you will need a Phd. This is why you see a fairly large percentage of Olin/Mudd/Tufts Engineering graduates going on to grad school. (Note that it is unusual to have to pay for an engineering masters degree).

If you only want to get one degree, then engineering LACs tend to be a good match for people with a broader set of interests who want to develop more of a “big picture” perspective, while engineering factories tend to be a good match for people with an intense interest in a particular technology and want to become a domain expert. These two different “personality types” tend to correspond to the two primary career tracks in high tech - management and consulting. Early career salary tends to be tied more to engineering skills while mid career salary tends to be tied more to the broader set of skills. Microsoft hires Olin grads for project management (which is not typically an entry level position)

Because of their small size and lack of research/Phd production, engineering LACs (like traditional LACs) tend to have more of a regional reputation. The thing to remember is that the vast majority of hiring in engineering is in fact regional
and for your particular discipline, the Boston area is more on the forefront of computer engineering than the Michigan area.

In terms of local standing, if you look at cross admit data 40% of the students admitted to Olin or Tufts and MIT choose Olin or Tufts. It is really about fitting your personality and learning style and not quality of education. Likewise between Olin/Michigan. Leading edge employers know Olin and think very highly of its graduates.

Good Luck

“Because of their small size and lack of research/Phd production, engineering LACs (like traditional LACs) tend to have more of a regional reputation. The thing to remember is that the vast majority of hiring in engineering is in fact regional
and for your particular discipline, the Boston area is more on the forefront of computer engineering than the Michigan area.”

Michigan has a national reach for engineering. Furthermore, a huge percentage of Michigan students are from OOS. Recruiters know that when they come to Ann Arbor, their engineers travel well all over the country.

“In terms of size, just the population of undergraduates at UMich (~28,000) is greater than the entire population of the town in which Olin resides.(~26,000).”

And the Boston metro area is much larger.

“The entire campus at Michigan is 21,000 acres, the main campus is 3,177 acres and it has 280 acres of parking lots.The entire campus at Olin is 70 Acres - which is equal to one quarter the size of Michigan’s parking lots.”

And so what you’re saying is that Olin is tiny and will be a complete bore in a matter of weeks.

“The population of undergraduates in Michigan’s school of engineering (~5800) is larger than the entire undergraduate population at Tufts (~5000, ~800 of which are engineers) and almost 20 times the population of Olin (~325). Olin is about equal to the size of the engineering enrollment at Harvey Mudd (Mudd’s total enrollment is ~800).”

And the Michigan engineering school is ranked much higher than Tufts.

“The distance between Michigan’s North and Central campuses is about 2.5 miles. Tufts and Harvard is about 2 miles. Babson is adjacent to Olin and the Claremont colleges (Pomona, CMC, Scripps ant Pitzer) are all adjacent.”

And the distance between Michigan’s North and Central campuses is similar to Harvard and Tufts and I guarantee a much, much, much faster commute. Did I say, much faster?

“In my opinion, a combination of an Engineering LAC for undergrad and a research university (such as Michigan) for a masters is the best preparation for industry. If you want to go into academia (which represents a very small percentage of available jobs) you will need a Phd. This is why you see a fairly large percentage of Olin/Mudd/Tufts Engineering graduates going on to grad school.”

And perhaps their undergradudate degrees and recruitment weren’t enough to get them that preferred job in the first place.

“In terms of local standing, if you look at cross admit data 40% of the students admitted to Olin or Tufts and MIT choose Olin or Tufts.”

And MIT, as excellent as it is, offers about the same social life setup as those other two schools. Michigan gives something almost all LACs cannnot do; a complete collegiate experience.

Both schools have their pluses and minuses. Personally for me at least, the pluses for attending Michigan are stronger.

Seems like this is an issue of whether you want to go to a big school or a small school. Any other issue would take a backseat to that. I doubt that the subject matter taught would be much different between the two schools.

A couple of weeks ago “The Economist” magazine did a survey of universities, and it was very complementary of the type of education Olin gave.

@rjkofnovi

Only if your sole idea of entertainment is partying in parking lots…

I assume you have not read the methodology behind this ranking. Engineers in industry have and don’t find it relevant.

Tufts students do not need to go to Harvard every day to take classes and Davis Square (in Somerville - half a mile away) is the most popular off-campus hang-out. It is also the top young person’s hangout in Cambridge/Somerville.

Somerville has the second highest density of young people and artists in the country and Cambridge has the third.

Davis Square has a subway stop. Harvard is a couple of subway stops away, MIT is a couple more and Boston is a couple more. Not much traffic underground. Above ground it is bad during rush hour, but not as bad at times when students tend to be out and about.

Probably the best comparison is…

Olin/Babson/Wellesley College vs. North Campus
Somerville/Cambridge/Tufts/Lesley/Longy/Harvard/MIT/Brandeis vs. Ann Arbor/Central Campus
Boston/BC/BU/Northeastern/Emerson/UMass Boston vs. Detroit

Olin has a smaller distance between living quarters and classes, a larger distance between living quarters/classes and the high density area of students, and a smaller distance between living/classes and a major city. I think most Babson/Olin students use Uber to get to Cambridge/Somerville (although there is a shuttle) and Uber (or shuttle) plus the subway stop in the adjacent city (Newton) to get into Boston.

Possible, but unlikely. Based on the UMich salary report (link below):

UMich average starting ECE salary is $10K less than Olin and $20K less than Tufts
UMich average starting CS salary is $10K less and max salary is $20K less than Tufts (Olin is hard to compare because it does not have a pure CS degree.)

UMich has a large percentage of out of state students for a state school, but not for a private school. Michigan’s out of state percentage is less than half of Olin’s or Tufts’, but the absolute number of out of state students is higher.

The leading edge markets for ECE are Silicon Valley, Boston, and Seattle. Based on the report, UMich undergrads don’t appear to end up in Massachusetts, but grad students do - which makes sense. Olin places well in the leading edge companies, but it is hard to tell if they are placing them in the Massachusetts offices or in the home state offices.

In general, on-campus recruiting is bigger at the bigger schools, but there is more competition. The smaller schools depend more on networking, but they do a better job of creating connections and teaching networking skills- which are important for advancing your career beyond the first job.

https://www.eecs.umich.edu/eecs/about/articles/2014/AnnualReport1213.pdf

From the Olin grads that I’ve heard talk about their jobs, a fair amount stay in the Boston area, and there is a large percentage that go to the West Coast (Bay Area and Seattle).