<p>lookingforward–I’m aware that after the 26th amendment was adopted many states lowered the age from 21. But I was using the 7 states that after prohibition was repealed adopted 18 and stayed at that age until the 1980s to see if a long term 18 age limit changes college behavior.</p>
<p>Here is a compilation of hazing deaths over the decades including at UT-Austin (where I attended in 1970-72)</p>
<p>“mini take a look at these stats. You would think that with 37% of US over 15 abstaining and beer as the alcohol of choice there would be a low alcohol death rate. Seems it is not so.”</p>
<p>I haven’t looked at these particular stats, but in most of the stats I have looked at, drunk driving is considered an alcohol death (including those killed, who may not have drunk.) We have by far the highest alcohol-related traffic death rate.</p>
<p>One of the main reasons for the lower alcohol rate is the success of the 21-year age limit. You don’t have 18-year-old high school students buying hard liquor and giving it to 14 year olds. Also, we have a high African American, Asian, and Hispanic population, all of whom have lower (in the case of the first two much lower) rates of alcohol consumption.</p>
<p>England has a massive problem now with drunk 15 and 16 year olds (let alone the 18-19 year olds.) Their first move now is toward a government mandate of a a massive increase the price of liquor by as much as 4X.</p>
<p>Here is another question - back in the 70’s and early 80’s, maybe maybe 5% of students studied abroard. Today, just under 50% of undergrads study abroad at my son’s midsized public university - its even greater at some private schools! Just a coincidence? It looks like a good percentage of young adults who are not from poor families are “temporarily voting with their feet”. Well at least they haven’t risen up in violent protests about their treatment by the government - like their Vietnam era parents/grandparents did.</p>
<p>" Charged with felony hazing are the fraternity’s president, Alexander M. Jandick, 21, of Naperville; its vice president, James P. Harvey, 21, of DeKalb; pledge adviser Omar Salameh, 21, of DeKalb; secretary Patrick W. Merrill, 19, of DeKalb; and event planner Steven A. Libert, 20, of Naperville, authorities said.</p>
<p>This was in the article 4 of the ones charged are 21! They are are NOT children they are adults. The should have known better. Also they are old enough to have been the ones who bought the alcohol.</p>
<p>I was in a 19 state, but we drank when we were 18 too. We were well aware at that time what the risks where. John Bohnam and Bon Scott had died the same way, and these people where way over 18. </p>
<p>We should be educating kids about these risks instead of dumping money into “just say no” type campaigns.</p>
<p>Anyone familiar with my posts on the issue of hazing by frat members knows that I have no soft heart for the people who engage in those practice. </p>
<p>I used the term children because plenty of people who join fraternities are just a few months separated from the protective wings of their parents. For many, it is the first time to enjoy liberties in time and actions they never experienced before. Many are highly influencable and seek to joing groups and often succumb to the peer pressure that comes inherently when people assemble.</p>
<p>Do not think for a second that my post served to mitigate the responsibilities of the perpetrators. We, however, have to start understand why they act in such manner, and more importantly why the PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE POWER to make changes continue to look the other way.</p>
<p>I know my Son got repeated exposure to discussions of “the risks” at his private school. Are you indicating that there are schools that don’t address the risk of alcohol use/abuse, so the student goes out (and perhaps off to college) without a clue of the risks? If that is so, I wasn’t aware that was the general case.</p>
<p>I was born in 1950. Heck as substance deaths made the news (Jimi, Janis, Jim, Moon, Bonham, etc), did it really get many of us to stop and take a look at our own abuse? No, for me and not for any other abusers I know.</p>
<p>What is an effective way to teach the risks that results in “responsible drinking?”</p>
<p>I don’t want to assume that I know xiggi’s position on this but whatever the alcohol message that kids do get before college, it is pretty clear that there are many students who crash and burn (and sometime die) with the independence of going to college. I think that xiggi wants serious action taken to get rid of frats as unreasonably dangerous group misbehavior/stupidity magnets for students so inclined.</p>
<p>Frats are basically Alcohol and Hazing Clubs. The universities know that pledge “bonding” activities (read: some degree of hazing) goes on. Creating an Alcohol and Hazing Club but then telling them not to get out of control doesn’t cut it. Remember that the perpetrators went through the same hazing as the pledges. </p>
<p>I notice that a lot of comments conflate hazing rituals with partying. It’s not the same thing. One involves free choice and one is something else.</p>
<p>Highly recommend Craig Brandon’s 2010 book: “The Five Year Party; How Colleges Have Given Up On Educating Your Child and What You Can Do About It”. Brandon is a professor at a university he self-describes as “party school”. He notes that many “party colleges” tacitly encourage the party atmosphere and lax academics to encourage enrollment and student retention. He notes that it’s difficult to flunk out of these “party colleges”. NIU could be poster-child for “party college”. Plenty of parents here discourage their kids from applying to NIU (and WIU, SIU, and EIU) because of the weak academics and over-active social scene. There’s been gang problems at NIU too.</p>
<p>Actually, there are studies on what is effective. Higher legal age limits, higher prices for booze; lower blood alcohol percentage for legal intoxication or zero tolerance for drivers under 21 and stiffer legal penalties are among those that have a demonstrably positive impact.</p>
<p>Since we’re talking about both the hazing and drinking (and drugs,) something that has bothered me; perhaps others-</p>
<p>In hs, when the police or educators came to warn us about driving safety we got the photos of the crashes, mangled cars, kids in the hospital. Some kids were visited by educators in wheelchairs or otherwise disabled. I remember the impression it made on me. (D2 got he same in an outside drivers ed program.)</p>
<p>Who educates kids about drugs and drinking? For my kids, it was highly successful individuals, telling how they “used to be” in trouble. But, look at how succesful they are today (where’s the message?) One let the kids know she’d just flown in from Singapore and was en route to Paris next. It’s a funny message…at the time, my reaction was: say what? You can abuse drugs and alcohol and still grow up to be just like her?</p>
<p>And, I think all the former fratties who survived, made good, who serve as present role models in life also send a convoluted message- I got through it, didn’t ruin my life…what the heck.</p>
<p>lookingforward-- I’m 29 years in recovery. I know exactly what you mean about “look at successful me” messages. I showed my son my SAT scores when actively drinking (73 percentile) and not drinking for 3 weeks (97 percentile). Same with before and after grades in law school when I stopped.</p>
<p>I told him of being a kid and scared and needing my father to wake up and not being able to because he was passed out. And, the relative that fell out the back door of a hotel and broke his neck. With permission I told him of his maternal uncle pulling a knife on an airplane because they cut him off from more booze. And of that uncle waking up in a ditch beaten and bloody because while drunk he cursed at two guys who chased him down.</p>
<p>I told him of night terrors. Or waking up in the bushes, Or sneeking outside to look at the car’s grill not remembering if I’d hit someone. How it felt to bargain with yourself unsuccessfully about not drinking for a month, a week, a day, before noon. I told him of being so out of it I drank liquid cleaner that was in a glass that looked like wine. I told him of how I knew what I looked like to others when wasted and how I vowed never to have anyone see me like that again.</p>
<p>There is a huge difference between what I wish for and what is doable. I am not naive enough to believe that schools will start policies to rid our schools from fraternities anytime soon. I will not happen – although it should.</p>
<p>On the other, I think that a lot more should be done. I’d be MORE in favor for education, talks, warning, mandatory classes on the dangers of addiction if they … worked or accomplished more. I have been talking (and yes not doing as much as I could) about this issue since one my childhood friends tragically died a few days after starting his college life in Colorado. This is more than 8 years ago, and since then his family has worked relentlessly to help others avoid a similar tragedy. I do not doubt that they are on the right track, but I am chagrined by the apparent apathy of the colleges and their leaders. At some point, you need to drop the books and the pamphlet and take a two-by-four to the thick skulls. </p>
<p>Simply stated we cannot hope that teenagers will do the right thing … all the time. And most accidents are happening to “virgin” drinkers and not veteran heavy drinkers. One mistake is all that is needed to ruin a life, both at the giving and at the receiving end. We ALL make mistakes but some are simply very hard to overcome. </p>
<p>As I wrote above, I am not naive enough to believe the Greek empire will vanish soon. The organization will cling to every possible branch and stone to survive. Plenty of parents and donors will fight tooth and nail. However, what could be done is to increase the measures AFTER an incident. No more slaps on the wrists. One death and one hazing problem on campus would result in a lifetime ban for that fraternity, and a warning to all others. A second one, and ALL fraternities are banned regardless of their guilt. If the same fraternity is involved in two fatalities, all schools should impose a national ban. </p>
<p>Harsh? Perhaps! But the alternative is so much worse.</p>
<p>I think a big part of it is that everyone is inebriated, The ones in charge are too drunk to stop , and the ones being hazed are too drunk to stop. its as if no one can say enough is enough.</p>
<p>In 2004, Pres. David Boren banned all alcohol in University of Oklahoma residences, and in all fraternities and sororities. Period. No exceptions. Doesn’t matter if you are over 21. It’s banned. It followed the death of 19-year-old fraternity member.</p>
<p>And the ban has been incredibly successful. Does it stop all drinking? No. People who want to get drunk go off campus to do it. But then the town police are ready, and working in close cooperation with the University. And you have to go seek it out.</p>
<p>The drinking age was grandfathered in after that changed it from 18 to 21. If you were now 19 in those states that had changed the age back to 21, you were still legal.</p>