<p>07Dad - age was 18 in MA my first year of college, 19 after that. I don’t remember too many people drinking enough to throw up or have blackouts, but we all drank too much. I know there were plenty of dance parties where I might have had seven drinks - spread out over several hours, but still! I remember a lot of mixed drinks - daiquiris, Black and White Russians, Tequila Sunrises, Rum and Cokes. Grad school parties in CA usually had punch with vodka. We often went to a bar my freshman year and everyone would order a cocktail or two, but never more than that. I remember a lot more pot smoking than drinking.</p>
<p>soccergurl,</p>
<p>Apologies, I wasn’t directing my statement toward you specifically at all.</p>
<p>My point is that the fact that an organization or the people within the organization may do worthwhile things doesn’t excuse or even out other actions.</p>
<p>An example could be Lance Armstrong. Some people defend him by saying he raised money for cancer charities. All well and good. But he still did the other things too! His actions in the sport of cycling don’t automatically disappear just because he also exhibited some other positive behavior.</p>
<p>“I don’t remember too many people drinking enough to throw up or have blackouts, but we all drank too much.”</p>
<p>A study at done at the Duke University Medical Center found that 12% of students had experienced an alcohol blackout in the previous year. It’s just a couple million brain cells each time.</p>
<p>“Unless you’re looking to ban alcohol completely (and I don’t mean a dry campus, I’m talking no bars, no alcohol at restaurants, no alcohol sold in stores, etc.), the age group will still find a reason and a method to drink.”</p>
<p>A very large proportion of Black and Asian students don’t drink at all, and an even larger proportion don’t binge drink. The same is true, to a lesser extent, among Hispanic students. One of the reasons the overall binge drinking rate is lower than most people seem to think is that most folks are thinking of white (and usually male) students, for whom binge drinking (and, I bet, hazing) are much higher. And, for better or worse, usually the leaders of the campus culture at many colleges are white, often athletic, non-poor, non-religious males.</p>
<p>Here’s an article regarding the racial and economic composition of fraternity members at Princeton - they used to have the full study on their website, but I haven’t looked recently:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2010/04/27/26010/[/url]”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2010/04/27/26010/</a></p>
<p>They actually did a whole series: here’s another one:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2010/04/26/25997/[/url]”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2010/04/26/25997/</a></p>
<p>My s graduated from a top 20 LAC with a drinking culture this past May. He was in a fraternity for couple of years, and found an inordinate amount of binge drinking, and heavy drinking and yes plenty of hazing as well as a high incidence of sexual assaults. He chose his somewhat alternative frat because it did not do any hazing, and ironically was an “unpopular” frat. He shared that he found the focus on alcohol at all events tiresome and immature. At parent weekends I saw parents drinking with their students, in a similar excessive manner. excited about beer pong. seriously?! it distressed me to see these same parents leaving events and getting into cars. needless to say I was pleased that my s found his way, and remained true to his own beliefs, I did share my concern with an administrator over health issues, as I am a mental health professional and I felt it was wrong not to provide this feedback.</p>
<p>This is just terrible. These people think it helps them “bond” but it only causes division.</p>
<p>If the research stats are correct, pre-college significant alcohol use is a trait of Greek members. The research indicates a process of self-selection, so that a male’s interest in going Greek, especially if it is an announced criteria for college selection, probably ought to be considered a red flag to be looked into by the parent.</p>
<p>The research I found supports part of what mini has said. Greeks binge more than non-Greek college males. Greek membership correlates to an increase in alcohol consumption from what the member engaged in prior to membership. The level of pre-college alcohol use just gets greater once they achieve Greek membership. </p>
<p>My take is that alcohol abuse and hazing ought not be enabled by a parent. If a parent believes their child will be involved in such behavior if they go Greek, refuse to fund it. </p>
<p>I view banning Greeks as essentially a stop gap step like Prohibition was. It does not change behavior as much as drive it underground. Also, there is hazing that gets out of hand and deadly in college sports teams. Why the particular focus on Greeks?</p>
<p>Not to go off too far on a tangent, the little data available suggests that Prohibition was extremely effective in reducing the total amount drunk. What it didn’t have was treatment for alcoholics and heavy drinkers who wanted it, nor an educational component. What followed Prohibition also worked, but in a different way - during the Depression, the relative price of hard alcohol increased significantly, and many people couldn’t afford to drink. </p>
<p>It is true that Greeks tend to have begun to drink well before college. And since the vast bulk of them are white males of north European extraction, their tendency toward alcoholism and serious alcohol problems is very high to begin with. With folks from this cohort, no drinking is better than “controlled” drinking. But there’s no way to convince kids of that in our current environment.</p>
<p>Anyone ever been hazed without alcohol?</p>
<p>mini–the reduction in total consumption during Prohibition after illegal importation and domestic illegal production got in place is estimated to be 30-40 percent, but the research attributes that almost exclusively to the increase in cost during Prohibition.</p>
<p>Heck-- my grandfather made his own beer during Prohibition. The do it yourselfers for personal consumption do not seem to have been factored in.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nber.org/papers/w3675.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nber.org/papers/w3675.pdf</a></p>
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<p>Amen. And, unless the parents walk the walk (abstain), there is little chance that it will change for white males of north European extraction. As Vonnegut said: and so it goes.</p>
<p>mini I’m pretty sure this hazing death did not involve alcohol</p>
<p>[Florida</a> files charges in death of FAMU drum major, hazing of 2 others - CNN.com](<a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/02/justice/florida-famu-charges/index.html]Florida”>http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/02/justice/florida-famu-charges/index.html)</p>
<p>Also, here is a study with 20+% of the hazing not involving alcohol.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.alfred.edu/sports_hazing/howmanystudents.cfm[/url]”>http://www.alfred.edu/sports_hazing/howmanystudents.cfm</a></p>
<p>I wouldn’t want to be an officer of an fraternity or any other group that practices hazing, in one of the states that classifies hazing as a felony. The officers at the NIU frat have already gotten a lot of publicity in the chicago area, even though charges may get reduced. But if they dont get reduced… Jail and permanent record!</p>
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<p>Purely anecdotal, but my best friend’s son attended OU, and I asked him about this. He said it was total nonsense, that there was just as much drinking going on there as in any state school, even in the dorms-most made “reasonable” efforts to be discreet, but it was allegedly common knowledge that it was happening.</p>
<p>I attended a football game there and questioned him about all the alcohol which was present all around the stadium, being consumed by students and alumna alike. After the game, liquor bottles were strewn EVERYWHERE. I would never have guessed this was a “dry campus.” Friend’s son explained that the dry campus rule is suspended on football game weekends. Whether this is an official waiver of policy or simply one in practice, I have no idea.</p>
<p>Another hazing incident, and another frat kicked off campus. Cornell this time…
[Cornell</a> Fraternity Kicked Off Campus For “Sexually Humiliating” Hazing: Gothamist](<a href=“http://gothamist.com/2013/01/12/bad_news_for_greeks_upstate.php]Cornell”>Cornell Fraternity Kicked Off Campus For "Sexually Humiliating" Hazing - Gothamist)</p>
<p>Someone please explain to me the point of Greek organizations at college???</p>
<p>I think the main point of Greek organizations is to keep the alumni writing big donation checks.</p>
<p>The alumni wouldn’t be writing those checks if they didn’t enjoy their Greek life while in college. Sorority was D1’s main social life while in college. She is still very close with her sorority sisters 2 years after college. D2 is going back today for rush, as most of her friends.</p>
<p>It is unfortunate what happened with TEP. For what’s worth, the fraternity brothers reported the incident and took the pledges to the hospital. The school did the right thing by kicking the fraternity off campus. Maybe other fraternities will be a lot more careful with hazing. The school is definitely going to keep a closer eye on the whole process this year.
[Cornell</a> Chronicle: Skorton OKs anti-hazing recommendations](<a href=“Home | Cornell Chronicle”>Home | Cornell Chronicle)</p>
<p>I gather there was more foul play than was mentioned in the news article-- the removal of underwear typically does not necessitate a visit to the hospital.</p>
<p>Pledges got too drunk and the brothers took them to the hospital and they reported it voluntarily. Not sure if underwear were removed, or if the pledges really cared about having their underwear removed. This is what I gathered through text messages over the weekend.</p>
<p>The problem is that the kids line up eagerly for the abuse. This happens every year, and yet there are no shortages of pledges. Yes, I think the frats need to have some severe consequences, but how do we get it through our kids’ heads that they should not put themselves through this sort of abuse. Just like the brothels keep on rollin’ as the customers line up with money in hand to pay.</p>
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<p>This is pretty lame entertainment: a bunch of guys stripping the underwear off other guys…</p>
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<p>There is none.</p>
<p>Should have been banned decades ago.</p>
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<p>Unfortunately, that is simply wishful thinking at its best. </p>
<p>Without concrete and drastic repercussions, fraternities will NEVER change. The strategy, helped by parents, is to deny and drag all cases toward a settlement, and then bury the issues. It is not in their DNA to understand how wrong they are. </p>
<p>As far as the schools keeping a closer eye, not only is it wishful thinking but also entirely cynical. Isn’t there a criminal case pending for actions at Cornell? Did any of the previous open the closed eyes? Or do they open one after closing the other? </p>
<p>Please note that I am not singling out Cornell as there are very few colleges that are DOING something about this cancer that continue to cost lives. The overwhelming majority is merely relying on blah-blah and assess the proiblem in the size of the collateral damages. </p>
<p>As long as they will be able to settle cases without serious criminal penalties, schools will continue to REFUSE to correct the problems. To the great joy of the morons who join those criminal organizations, and the nostalgic and naive who support the poor choices of the children. </p>
<p>PS In the context of the discussion, it is not hard to realize that the world of fraternities and sororities is not exactly the same. It should, however, not change anything to the necessary policies of school to eradicate Greek life from campus, or make them entirely benign. That means to restrict them to activities they pretend to only pursue.</p>