<p>Xiggi, I’d love to know what veiled agenda you think you’re advancing by calling Greek life a ‘cancer’</p>
<p>I could not answer that question because there is absolutely nothing veiled in my calling Greek life a cancer. Nor is there any agenda, except to wish that the purported leaders of colleges and universityies would start taking actions against these organizations. </p>
<p>Hope that does satisfy your curiosity.</p>
<p>Not all of us are the same, and painting with such a wide brush solves no problems other than to hurt those of us that do good</p>
<p>If they were remotely supporting the immediate and permanent closure of the misbehaving ones, and I might be more impressed with the purported do gooders. </p>
<p>Choosing whom you choose to associate with will reduce the size of the brush.</p>
<p>Another story: Someone I know recently pledged a fraternity that said it didn’t haze. The frat then hazed. He decided to quit and asked for his money back. The frat said no. His parents then contacted the frat, said if the money wasn’t refunded they would report the hazing to the university, and the frat gave the money back.</p>
<p>I really don’t see the point of hazing.</p>
<p>
I think this isn’t right, and it’s part of why it’s so hard to stamp out hazing. It does help them bond–indeed, as long as nobody gets seriously hurt, people look back fondly on being hazed. They don’t recall receiving it or giving it as something shameful. That’s because once you’ve been through it, you’re part of the group. This is why I don’t think change will come from within Greek organizations.</p>
<p>To me it’s very clear that Greek organizations are highly desired by a lot of students. No shortages of applicants all hoping to be selected and putting up with abuse that the initiatian rites sometimes have. Never mind that the fact that they are so afraid of not being picked—can’t take that feeling and understand that they are perpetuating it by perpetuating the whole Greek life thing, thousands, tens, hundreds of thousands of kid want to be part of this scene. </p>
<p>Like I said earlier, it’s like a brothel. That honey is just too sweet in there, when it really is rot.</p>
<p>I graduated in 1975 from U of Michigan (no use trying to hide it - you could search this forum and find out with a little bit of effort). My closest friends to this day are the guys that were in my fraternity class. They are all good, responsible, professional people with good jobs and families - lawyers, doctors, etc. All of our wives know each other and we are spread out all over the US. We were all in each other’s weddings.</p>
<p>Did we haze? Yes, but it was very mild. Nothing physical and no forced drinking.</p>
<p>Did we drink? Yes, but almost always beer. Never hard liquor, but occasionally wine.</p>
<p>We lived in a beautiful, old tudor-style house that we were always very proud of and tried to treat with respect and dignity.</p>
<p>Are fraternities a cancer? NO!</p>
<p>UMDAD, I believe you–but here’s a question–what is that same fraternity at Michigan like now?</p>
<p>The greek system no longer contributes anything of value to our university system. It has morphed into an obscene depiction of the most undesirable traits of young adults. Besides the hideous fact that students are actually dying from the shenanigans of these “houses”, it is seriously damaging the reputations of our universities. Why university administrations continue to put up with it is beyond me.</p>
<p>Another question: is there a model Greek system? That is, an entire system at a college that is doing it right–no hazing incidents, and no serious drinking incidents, over a period of years? If there is, how did they accomplish that? If there isn’t one–at any of the many hundreds of colleges that have Greek systems, what does that suggest?</p>
<p>Otter: “But you can’t hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn’t we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn’t this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn’t this an indictment of our entire American society?”</p>
<p>Obviously this is from a movie, but there is actually more than a bit of truth in this quotation. As Hunt asked me in #131 above, my old fraternity has changed dramatically from my days. Thankfully, there is a group of grads working very hard to get it back on the rails, so to speak. Over 20 undergrads were asked not to return at the end of last year, because they did not share the beliefs and vision of the fraternity.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Not necessarily that the Greek system has to be eradicated entirely, if that’s what you’re saying; only that something needs to change in the way of regulations.</p>
<p>My experience was very much like UMDAD n post 130 The only alcohol “hazing” tradition involved the Jr class taking the Sr class out for drinks after fall finals. Seniors were expected to drink heavily, but if they didn’t know how to say no if they didnt want to drink at 22, it wasn’t the Greek system’s fault.
Calling all Greek letter organizations at all schools a “cancer” is wildly stirring all ingredients into one pot.</p>
<p>I just don’t see how useful it is to speak of how fraternities and sororities were in the “good old days”. That was then and this is now. The here and now is pretty darn shameful. We can gaze longingly into the past all we want, but that does not change the reality that we face today. Some of our children have lost their lives. Does anything more really need to be argued?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Even in the “good old days”, fraternities were widely associated with alcohol, though there was considerable variation in alcohol consumption between different fraternities (some as low as one beer per week per member, but most others a lot more…). Incidents involving alcohol at fraternities were not all that unusual then. I would not be surprised if it is not much different today.</p>
<p>On the other hand, sororities did not have any such reputation.</p>
<p>“Calling all Greek letter organizations at all schools a “cancer” is wildly stirring all ingredients into one pot.”</p>
<p>Along with many other comments that are complete generalizations of all fraternities.</p>
<p>My son is the president of his fraternity, a small frat whose sole purpose is promoting the companionship of a group of friends. He was pretty shy in high school, and I know that his fraternity brothers have been very important to him. They have parties, but they are low key.</p>
<p>Not all frats are the same.</p>
<p>It really bothers me re: the problems today’s fraternities are having (BTW - we NEVER called it a “frat”). As I stated above, my fraternity days were and are very important to me. And yes, that was then and the problems are now.</p>
<p>It seems to me that it isn’t necessarily the fraternities that have changed, but the student population and their expectations of fraternity life. Until very recently, the members of my old fraternity seemed to view it as a wide-open residence hall in which they could do whatever they wanted, rather than a fraternal organization, where the members looked out for each other and the fraternity as a whole. Fortunately, the chapter alumni board is making a serious effort to swing the pendulum back, and invest the current members with the real purpose of our fraternity.</p>
<p>Only time will tell.</p>
<p>The book “The Five Year Party” is a good read for any parent with kids approaching college age. I found the author’s take on fraternities startling…</p>
<p>“Fraternities are, by far, the strangest and most dangerous organizations on today’s college campuses. They are regularly busted for activities like…(long list)… In other words they represent the very opposite of the enlightened wisdom that colleges used to provide. Their presence on college campuses is like finding hit men in the Boy Scouts.”</p>
<p>I’m surprised our universities are still endorsing these in today’s global competitive environment.</p>