<p>Just know that if a frat has been shut down, or there is one that is off campus and is not recognized by the school, I doubt that googling will bring up the information that you are looking for. Somone from my son’s hs graduating class joined a frat like that.</p>
<p>When I went through rush 25 years ago, I had to stand on a table in a fraternity house and sing “I’m a Little Teapot.” Afterwards, I was taken out for blueberry crisp. I think that’s why my school was considered to be full of nerds. I do remember some of the boys being thrown into the lake on campus - I’m sure it was sheer luck that no one drowned.</p>
<p>I know that not all frats are bad–but how can you really know which ones are and aren’t? I know some campuses are really cracking down on alcohol use in the frats–and I would say that would drastically reduce the hazing and deaths. At Wabash College in Indiana freshman pledges move right into the fraternity, so imagine trying to adapt to college life and living under that pressure. ATO had a freshman pledge die of alcohol poisoning early this fall, which is all the more tragic when you hear that he was calling home and complaining about the pressure to drink. He came from a non-drinking family out of state. </p>
<p>And that is why my son was told from an early age that it’s not an option. Yes, there might be good things that come from it, but the risks really outweigh the benefits imo. It only takes one sadist to turn a fraternity pledgship into a living nightmare.</p>
<p>My favorite pledge story is about my friend Pete, who was pledging a frat at Purdue. He was also studying freshman engineering and trying hard to get accepted into the school of engineering. The frat kept calling him up in the middle of the night to come and wash the kitchen floor. After the third night he showed up and said,“Look, I can’t keep doing this and keep my grades up.” They got in his face and yelled at him and he stood his ground and said,“Fine. I quit.” He started walking out and they pulled him in a room and said,“Man, it’s all about the brotherhood. You have to go through this so you can appreciate being a member…” blah blah blah. He said,“Actually I don’t. Not interested.” And he left. I hope I’ve raised sons that have the good sense to walk away from such idiocy rather than tolerate it in the hopes they get a friend out of the deal. </p>
<p>Every time I think about that dead boy at Wabash my heart just breaks for his family. What could they do? By the time they knew it wasn’t a good situation, he was already living there, and then a couple of weeks later he was dead. Why?</p>
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<p>If you hear about such a house, ask your student whether there is an “annex.”</p>
<p>What’s an annex? It’s an off-campus apartment – or several – where some of the fraternity brothers (or sorority sisters) live. Often, these are juniors and seniors who’ve kind of outgrown the chapter house and would prefer to live off-campus. These annexes are where the real parties are held – the ones that don’t have to follow any rules because they are not “official” fraternity or sorority events.</p>
<p>Here’s an interesting hazing site from Cornell: [url=<a href=“http://www.hazing.cornell.edu/]Hazing.Cornell.Edu[/url”>http://www.hazing.cornell.edu/]Hazing.Cornell.Edu[/url</a>] My daughter is a student at Cornell but is not involved in Greek life, so I have no personal knowledge of the subject. Nevertheless, the site is an eye-opener.</p>
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<p>Oldfort, I don’t think this is a funny story. I think it’s a dangerous violation of dorm security rules. How did those guys get into her room anyway? I wouldn’t like to come back to my home and find that three uninvited people had somehow broken in; why should your daughter have to put up with such things?</p>
<p>I just want to reiterate that NOT ALL fraternities are bad. We have deferred rush at my school (rush is in the spring) so that helps freshmen get to know more about each of the fraternities. Maybe if there are fraternities that actually seem like good ones a semester of feeling things out with help guys get a better idea, I know that by spring I knew which ones to avoid. I know there’s one that I would avoid at all costs, and another that seems pretty rough, but other than that they’re mostly time-consuming. The one I’m in has the highest GPA, we just won the community service award for the semester from IFC, and Greek Week. </p>
<p>And trying to be objective here as possible, even if some of the pledging activities were ridiculous most guys consider pledging their favorities semester of college. Maybe it’s just our tendency to enjoy doing daunting, sometimes stupid tasks. This could be one of the reasons that stuff like this perpetuates.</p>
<p>Also, another reason that hazing continues has to be from the bonds that you build with your own pledge class. Not saying that it’s worth it (many cases it isn’t) but when older brothers come up with activities for the pledges, they want to foster that same bonding experience, even if it is completely idiotic.</p>
<p>I obviously can’t divulge any of my own personal experiences, but there was nothing I wouldn’t do again. I took 5 classes, including organic and bio, and came out with a 3.8. I also played a varsity sport and was in SGA.</p>
<p>Since the details of hazing are generally very secret, one only hears rumors of such things, although I guess everyone assumes binge drinking is part of it. I agree with a previous poster that a lot of the behavior has gone underground as colleges have cracked down. I personally have had a student found dead from alcohol abuse (not poisoning per se, but from a stupid incident that would never have happened without binge drinking) related to a fraternity party (although I don’t think he was a pledge).</p>
<p>It’s never too early to warn college bound Ss & Ds about the pitfalls of fraternities and, to a lesser extent, sororities. While there can be benefits, it is the ultimate in peer pressure. If you think it’s bad in the dorms because everyone is drinking, what do you do when the peer group you want desperately to join or impress is egging you on? </p>
<p>S1 joined a music fraternity that didn’t have a house on campus, but he dropped out after about 4 months because of the “stupid” stuff they made them do. And I don’t think in his case it was drinking or anything dangerous, just stupid stuff they made them to for no reason. Neither of mine are really joiners, so I have breathed a sigh of relief.</p>
<p>An award winning documentary from Northwestern U on the bizarre ritual of Sorority recruitment.</p>
<p>[Video:</a> Rushed - A Northwestern Sorority Documentary (Pt 1 of 2)](<a href=“Home - Welcome to Technorati”>Home - Welcome to Technorati)</p>
<p><<i do=“” remember=“” some=“” of=“” the=“” boys=“” being=“” thrown=“” into=“” lake=“” on=“” campus=“” -=“” i’m=“” sure=“” it=“” was=“” sheer=“” luck=“” that=“” no=“” one=“” drowned.=“”>></i></p><i do=“” remember=“” some=“” of=“” the=“” boys=“” being=“” thrown=“” into=“” lake=“” on=“” campus=“” -=“” i’m=“” sure=“” it=“” was=“” sheer=“” luck=“” that=“” no=“” one=“” drowned.=“”>
<p>A member of my HS graduating class (1971) drowned at a frat rush/pledge event our freshman year. IIRC, it was at Tulane.</p>
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<p>30 years ago when I pledged we were taught “those who tell don’t know, those who know don’t tell!”</p>
<p>Even right after the process, I knew there where some people who were “sickos”, but most where really great people and many protected pledgers from the “sickos” whenever possible.</p>
<p>As an adult, I’m more involved with my sorority than ever ( which at times seems to be excessively cautious with anti-haring policies), and among African-America Greeks at least, joining “grad chapter” is a great option.</p>
<p>jdd, I’m sorry for your son’s experience. Can you share what college this is?</p>
<p>A kid I know was tied to the top of a car and driven at high speed around campus in the middle of the night. He admitted it happened only because someone alerted police, and they were all arrested. I’m really shocked more kids don’t die from hazing activites.</p>
<p>I want to start by agreeing that not al frats are bad. But some do do thing like actually lower pledges GPAs by demanding so much time and endanger the lives of their pledges to prove how “elite” they are. </p>
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<p>Oh, please, spare me. This is nothing but justification to not take real action (ie inform the school) because you do not want to risk your son’s position in this “elite” fraternity. Hazing ends when colleges crack down. End of story.</p>
<p>He’s already shown he’s willing to participate and that he gives into group pressure even when it is not in his own best interest. Do you really believe this same child is going to be the only one of these brothers to stand up and say, “My mommy told me not to do this, so I will not!”</p>
<p>Every year students die doing this. You have a chance to make real change. At least acknowledge you’re taking the easy way out here.</p>
<p>I honestly think there should start to be some criminal liability. The frats where the deaths occur are generally shut down by the university–but what about holding the guy that forced the beer bong down the pledge’s throat responsible? I think if there were a few criminal prosecutions it might also make a difference. </p>
<p>It’s just a bad premise right out of the gate. Bonding happens when you have something in common, and yes bonding can happen when facing adversity. But bonding also happens when you do something fun, or something of service, or spend time getting to know each other. </p>
<p>As a favorite teacher once said,“Not everyone in a fraternity is an a-hole, but every a-hole on campus is in a fraternity.” It just attracts a certain type–and the nice guys don’t step up and control those jerks. They can’t.</p>
<p>“And that is why my son was told from an early age that it’s not an option”.
So, I assume this means you absolutely did not allow your son to join a fraternity. Wow. How does one do this with an 18+ individual. Did you threaten to pull funding?
I believe that it’s important for kids to make their own decisions regarding which groups to join or not join. Yes, warn them about the dangers. But I was done dictating what my son did when he left high school - hopefully with some lessons already in his head.
I would not pay a penny to fund a fraternity lifestyle …but I just don’t see how I could forbid it.
Anyway, schools should have an anonymous hazing line to report these incidents. Awful stuff some of it. Some of it seems harmless to me (cleaning floors at 6am - sounds like what my brother did in the military). But some of the other stuff is disgusting. What young souls will do to fit in never ceases to amaze me…</p>
<p>If my son made a choice to prioritize any social activity over his grades and/or good health, I’d damn sure pull his funding.</p>
<p>Wow. I am amazed to read, from more than one poster on this thread, that their S or D “took a light load” in a given semester to allow them to participate in rush and have the necessary time available to be hazed.</p>
<p>No one else seems to have commented on this, so perhaps others consider this a side issue?</p>
<p>I have no experience whatsoever with sororities or fraternities. But doesn’t anyone else find this odd? I want my kid to have a social life, make friends, do other things than study. But take a lighter than normal load in order to establish social relationships?</p>
<p>out of the crowd of kids from hs my daughter hangs around with, mix of boys and girls, only one of the crowd out of 12 said he was pledging, when he asked the other guys and girls why they weren’t they said why would we subject ourselves to that?</p>
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<p>I agree with this 100%. I am part of a very unusual, quirky co-ed Greek, and it makes me so mad to hear people in other Greeks talk about how hazing is necessary to create bonding, because it’s just not true. Instead of being hazed, each of our pledge classes participate in a (completely voluntary) pledge project, where they make a gift for the house (paint a mural on a wall, create a photo album, make a song book, etc). Coming up with creative ideas and making something they are excited about creates plenty of bonding amongst our pledges, and it’s FUN. I loved working on my pledge project. Not to mention it creates positive interaction with the members. Who would you rather call Brother, someone who beats you and forces you to drink, or someone who is really excited to see what creative thing you came up with?</p>
<p>I also agree with jmmom that I think it’s counterproductive to have a pledge period that takes up so much time that someone needs to have a lighter course load. Sure, if you’ve decided to hold a big office in a house, it might make sense to hold off on taking all the hardest classes (in the same way you might take a lighter load if you’ve decided to direct a play), but I don’t think the process of just plain becoming a member should require that kind of commitment. Of course, my Greek also allows pledges to join even if they haven’t come to any pledge events, so apparently we are just weird? What happened to these organizations stressing academic achievements?</p>
<p>I think part of the problem is that, esp. at schools where Greeks life is a big thing, there is a sense that you are supposed to “earn” your letters by putting in a lot of time during the pledging process, and sometimes also by being hazed. Greeks that don’t have strenuous pledge requirements are sometimes looked down on. If that kind of mentality could be changed, it might go a long way to stopping this stupidity, but I don’t know how it could be changed. I feel really lucky to go to a school where Greek life is really small, and each Greek just kind of does their own thing. There’s no fight for status or anything, and that is very helpful.</p>
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<p>Are we talking about college organizations or the Mafia, here?</p>
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<p>Why can’t you? Afraid of finding a horse head in your bed? Your “brothers” have threatened bodily harm?</p>