<p>Hey everyone! I have a couple questions about my courses for freshman fall.
First of all, I’m wondering when the list of specific expos 20 sections will come out. It’s my understanding that there is a list of topics from which you can pick; I can find this list for spring 2010, but not for fall. Will I receive this at orientation? Can I shop different section topics during the first week?
Next, I was wondering if I should tackle MCB80 (neurobio of behavior) as a freshman. The Q guide doesn’t rate it as ridiculously difficult (more than 75% rated it as between “moderate” and “very easy”), but I don’t know if it’s a course that freshmen generally take. I’m looking to major in philosophy in the mind/brain/behavior track, and the phil. department website urges prospective concentrators to complete their science requirements as quickly as possible, so I’d like to take this right off the bat. It’d be my only pset class, and I have a year of AP bio under my belt - do you think I could handle it?
Finally, I have a question that might require another philosophy concentrator for an answer. The philosophy concentration requirements include an “intro course”; I am torn between philosophy 3, “intro to the problems of philosophy,” and philosophy 8, “intro to early modern philosophy.” The cue guide rates phil 8 as significantly more difficult, and also shows a far higher percentage of philosophy concentrators having enrolled in the class; this makes me think that phil 8 is the better choice for majors. However, this year, phil 8 is only offered in the spring. I really don’t want to wait a whole semester to take a philosophy course, but philosophy 3 seems too easy/undesirable amongst concentrators. In sum: should I settle for phil 3 so as to take a phil course my first semester, or should I hold out for phil 8 in the spring? Does it even matter?
As always, thank you! This place is always an invaluable resource. (:</p>
<p>If it matters, my potential schedule looks something like:
Latin Ac (review course; for those who have more than 1 year of formal classes but who didn’t place into lit courses… haha)
MCB80
Phil 3/8
Expos or Frosh seminar, depending on my assignment</p>
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<p>It will probably be posted online some time during the first week.</p>
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<p>Nope. You will rank 8 choices (where each time is a choice, so Immigrant Fiction @ 12 and Immigrant Fiction @ 1 PM count as two choices) and you will get assigned one of them.</p>
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<p>I don’t know anything about MCB or philosophy but generally if there are no prereqs, there are no prereqs. Don’t worry about “what freshman normally take.” I took a few classes that weren’t the standard Gov 20, Ec 10, Lifesci type deals and they ended up my favorite classes.</p>
<p>Hi Elanorci, I’m also a rising freshman who is leaning towards majoring in the Philosophy MBB track. </p>
<p>With regards to MCB 80, I think I’m going to take it after my freshman year. I read the same advise from the philosophy department, but I think I’ll take the required Science of Living Systems 20 (Psychological Science) during my first year instead. Though I could be wrong, I feel that taking a Gen Ed science course as opposed to a cross listed course might be a better way to ease into our freshman year, since both classes are required anyway. </p>
<p>In terms of philosophy classes, I was thinking of taking either Philosophy 7 (Introduction to Ancient Philosophy) in the fall or Phil 8 in the spring. I will also try to take Justice with Professor Michael Sandel in the fall (it’s a lottery system so I may not be able to). Depending on my seminar and Expos assignments, my fall schedule might look like this:</p>
<p>Justice
Phil 7
SLS 20
Expos/Seminar</p>
<p>If I don’t get Justice, that would open up 2 spots for both expos and a seminar. If I take less than both of those in the fall, I will likely take another Gen Ed course to round out my schedule. Does this make sense? I’m happy to find another person who is considering Philosophy MBB, it makes this a little less daunting haha.</p>
<p>“Justice” is over-rated. You can learn everything taught in that course by just reading articles from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy and by watching past lectures for free online. I would take a Freshman Seminar instead. Just make sure you pay attention to the Q-scores.</p>
<p>@Dwight - thanks for the info! I guess I shouldn’t pay too much attention to what classes are “standard” for freshmen… I’m not majoring in a very standard track anyway. 
DaRican - wow! It’s amazing to find someone else! They only had two philosophy MBBs this year… We might be the only ones in our class. 
I’m pretty sure I’m going to take SLS20 in the spring, since Steven Pinker is the teacher that semester. 
It’s funny that you mention a general science course; I was thinking about lifesci 1a/1b. But neither of them have very good cue guide scores and sound like generally difficult classes… I guess my plan now is to talk to my advisor. But it seems that we both want to take SLS20. (:
So you’ve ruled out phil 3? Interesting… I would go for phil 7 but I’m really just not interested in ancient philosophy to that extent. Is there a reason that you’re not considering phil 3? I have a moderate philosophy background; perhaps you do too, and think it would be too easy?
This may sound weird, but… can I facebook friend you? Send me a private message if you’re not too creeped out, haha! I’m sure we’d end up meeting anyway, and it’d be useful to have someone to coordinate schedules with as things progress. (:</p>
<p>I asked your question of one of the undergrads in my lab, who’s a senior Neurobiology concentrator with MBB.</p>
<p>He says:
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<p>Mollie, thank you so much for your help! it’s very reassuring to know that other freshmen have successfully taken MCB80. I guess I’ll talk to my advisor, shop it, and see… Hopefully it’ll work, as I’d like to get a real neurobio class in early so that I can determine if it might be a better concentration for me.
Anyway, you were extremely helpful back when I was applying to MIT, and I can’t thank you enough for your continued helpfulness - even when I ended up on the other side of the river. :P</p>
<p>First off, you should be aware that no one will hold you to taking an “intro” philosophy course. As I was once told, “intro either means a course labeled “introduction” or the first course you take in a subject.” So if you never happen to take phil 7 or 8 no one will care. That said, phil 8 is a great course to have taken. Not so much for the content, though the content is interesting in its own right, but because the structure of the course is meant to teach you how to write a well-structured philosophy paper at college level. Writing philosophy papers is a very particular exercise, and while teaching oneself to write them outside of phil 8 is possible (I did this), it can be a steep learning curve. I can’t speak for phil 7, as it is being taught by a new professor, though I’m sure it will be fine. Don’t take phil 3. So my advice would be this- if you have four courses you want to take in the fall (take a freshman seminar!), then don’t worry about not taking a phil course right away. A friend didn’t take a phil course until her sophomore spring and still managed to get into the second best graduate program in philosophy as a senior, so don’t stress. But if there is a course you really want to take in phil first semester, go talk to the professor about your situation and interest. Also, you might drop in on Ned Hall’s office hours the first week. He is in charge of the undergraduate program and a terribly nice guy. He’d be more then happy to talk with you. Also, if you want my opinion, don’t take Justice. While Sandel can be an interesting lecturer (as I’ve gleamed from watching a few videos), the course itself is not good (in my opinion). A thousand person course is never good, let alone for a freshman. Sandel has pretty questionable interpretations of many of the books you will read, and his explanations will not prepare you well for further work in philosophy. And the abilities of the teaching fellows range from very good (phil and political theory grad students), to very poor (law school students with almost zero background in philosophy). The phil department will warn you against justice as well I believe. Wait for the Spring and take Scanlon’s “Equality and Democracy.”</p>
<p>Happy to help. </p>
<p>I’m just trying to figure out how I can get everybody on CC to shop SCRB 180 so they can say hi to the TF. (That would be me, in my first appearance as a TF.)</p>
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<p>Yay :p!! I looked up SCRB 180 on the online course guide and it sounded really interesting! But since the prerequisites are LS1a and 1b, maybe I’ll get to take them next year:P.</p>
<p>I would never take Justice. Why on Earth would you take a class that is essentially only worthwhile for its lectures when ALL OF THOSE LECTURES ARE ON HBO AND YOUTUBE? Maybe in the past it might have been worthwhile to take the class, but since it’s on Youtube now, it doesn’t make sense to waste your time squeezed into a lecture hall with hundreds of students.</p>
<p>As for expo 20, I found this…</p>
<p>[HERS</a> Output](<a href=“http://webdocs.registrar.fas.harvard.edu/courses/ExpositoryWriting.html]HERS”>http://webdocs.registrar.fas.harvard.edu/courses/ExpositoryWriting.html)</p>
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If this is any sort of enticement, I will be head TF next year. ;)</p>
<p>white_rabbit,
really? i don’t actually need an intro to philosophy course? that’s pretty fantastic! in that case, would it be totally crazy to just jump into something more advanced? i’m thinking specifically of phil 156, philosophy of mind, or 159, epistemology. do many freshmen do this kind of thing?
calico, that’s exactly the kind of thing i was looking for. clearly not yet complete, but still a good start. thanks!</p>
<p>I guess the best way to answer is to try and explain the culture of many Harvard programs. Harvard has long taken the view that if you get into Harvard you will be able to handle Harvard. That being the case, Harvard has often been seen as a sink or swim type of place. Not really in the sense of schools like MIT or Berkeley, which are famous for having students fail if they can’t handle the work, but more in a “we’re not going to over-determine what you take.” For instance, you take placement tests as a freshman, but no one will ultimately hold you to those tests. If your math examine says you should take Math 1A, but you sign up for Math 23a, you will probably not be stopped. Part of this is because the advising system at Harvard has long been hit or miss. (Your freshman advisor can range from an important senior professor, as mine was, to a administrator that knows little about academics. Then you get a departmental advisor that varies as well (some departments are great, others are not).) But it is also because Harvard feels like you shouldn’t be “directed” too much. If you walk into Philosophy 159, and the professor says the course is designed for students who already have a good background in philosophy, no one will stop you from taking that course.</p>
<p>So to answer your question more directly, freshman do sometimes take advanced courses their first semester. Saul Kripke was critiquing Quine’s work as a freshman, to his face. Robert Paul Wolff talks in his biography about taking graduate seminars with Quine and Nelson Goodman as a first semester freshman. I have friends who took 100 level courses as first semester freshman, though it was concurrently with Phil 8 (which again, is designed to teach you to write philosophy papers and is usually taught in the Fall). I took two upper devision 100 level courses my sophomore fall having not taken any prior phil courses, though I had taken a number of writing intensive courses.</p>
<p>Bottom line- Can you take them as a first semester freshman, yes. Will you struggle to write the papers and do poorly, almost certainly. Philosophy papers are graded very seriously, phil 8 sometimes has only one student who earns an A out of 30. I would drop into Ned Hall’s office and speak with him. You won’t be sad you did!</p>
<p>Re: MCB80 - Molliebat’s comment is right on, although I’d like to add that the nature of the course (lecture quizzes!) almost makes me think it’d be better to take it as a freshman. I’m not sure if this applies to you, but my tolerance for sort of “high-schooly” ways of being assessed diminished greatly as I spent more time at Harvard. By the time I took MCB80 (as a Junior), I was very used to learning the material my own way, at my own pace, (which sometimes meant not attending class, or doing reading after class, or so on). My quiz grades were not the best… and I think I may have received one of the lower grades I got at Harvard (in addition to my lazyness, my TF was pretty terrible). Just my two cents!</p>