Freshmen drop like flies at second-tier tech schools

College Search & Lists
1

<p>The freshman attrition after one year at the second-tier tech schools is quite high. By second-tier, I mean somewhat lower math SATs. Sometimes, almost 25% don’t make it to sophomore year. Do they flunk calc and physics in one year? Is Olin telling the truth about their 100%? I doubt it.</p>

<p>source: IPEDS</p>

<p>school, freshman retention percent, SAT math 25th percentile, SAT math 75th percentile</p>

<p>California Institute of Technology 97 770 800
Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering 100 740 800
Harvey Mudd College 93 740 800
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 98 720 800
Carnegie Mellon University 94 680 780
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 93 650 730
Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art 93 640 770
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology 91 630 710
Worcester Polytechnic Institute 90 630 710
Case Western Reserve University 91 620 720
Stevens Institute of Technology 90 620 710
Illinois Institute of Technology 85 620 710
Milwaukee School of Engineering 76 590 685
Rochester Institute of Technology 85 560 670
Drexel University 84 560 670
Clarkson University 81 560 660
Polytechnic University 76 560 670</p>

2

<p>Olin is pretty small, so it’s believable. These statistics are for one year, right? And also, are these statistics for only the “tech” majors? Or do they include everybody at that school?</p>

3

<p>These stats are for just one year for all majors, not just tech. Tech majors probably have even lower freshman retention. Olin probably has high retention but 100%?..no way.</p>

4

<p>Why not? They have under 80 people enrolling each year…all of whom are very intelligent and get a FREE RIDE. If I liked technology and had somehow gotten in, I would try my hardest there and wouldn’t trade it for anything.</p>

5

<p>If it’s 80 people, I don’t see a reason why it wouldn’t be believable. If it’s 100% every year, then I would wonder.</p>

6

<p>I believe it about Olin. They’ve got a unique program, few students, and the price is unbeatable.</p>

<p>It’s important to realize that freshman dropout doesn’t always mean failout. For example, sometimes freshmen have a successful academic year so they can transfer to the college they’d hoped to get into after high school (but didn’t). Or the financial aid package doesn’t improve (sometimes students enroll with optimism about future scholarships, which don’t pan out). </p>

<p>I think it’s a red flag when freshman retention isn’t similar to that seen at peer institutions, but be careful about attributing it to one cause.</p>

7

<p>It makes a lot of sense. It’s usually a lot easier to get into a second-tier engineering schools than it is to get out of them alive. At Virginia Tech about a third of the engineers drop out. I don’t have a source to prove that but it’s true. It doesn’t say anything bad about the school (the opposite really), it’s just the reality of the combination of easier admissions and not that much easier coursework.</p>

8

<p>I don’t know any engineers that dropped out of CMU, all the ones I know which switched out of engineering went to business, computer science, math, or some other field within the school. Also, only a little over 1/2 of CMU’s students are actually within Engineering, CS, or the school of science. I think that’s actually lower than a good number of other schools on that list.</p>

9

<p>I think the other part of retention rate is that, when you go to a “second tier” (I’ll read that as second choice) school, lots of kids keep thinking they could do better rather than focusing on what they can get from their current school.</p>

10

<p>those retention rates don’t look horrible at all.</p>

11

<p>Freshman engineer drop-out rates could be worse. The above stats do not measure transferring out of engineering in the same school.</p>

12

<p>So on that list which ones were supposedly the “second tier”?
Anything below Milwaukee or what? Or were those all first tier?</p>

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<p>I’m not sure which can be classified as 1st tier vs 2nd tier. I would assume everything under Cooper Union except Case Western is 2nd tier. It could also be any school is 2nd tier if their middle 50% SAT has the lowe end math score bellow 600 (like Milwaukee). Either way, if freshman retention is 80% or lower that means that at least 1 out of every 5 (and for some of these schools 1 out of every 4) freshmen do not make it to the next year. There could be cases of freshmen doing very well (like at IIT and Milwaukee) and they transfer to their state flagship which is really strong at engineering. However, it isn’t a sign of a good school if 1 in 5 students doesn’t make it past freshman year. Remember, even fewer will graduate in 4 years, 6 years, or at all.</p>

14

<p>There is a steady decline in retention as math SATs decrease. </p>

<p>I could divide them inti more than one tier based on retention:</p>

<p>Caltech
MIT
Olin</p>

<p>Carnegie
Mudd
RPI
Cooper</p>

<p>Rose-Hulman
WPI
Stevens
Case</p>

<p>RIT
Clarkson
IIT
Drexel</p>

<p>Milwaukee
Polytechnic</p>

15

<p>Northeastern University 90 600 680</p>

<p>Northeastern does well with retention considering the selectivity in math SAT.</p>

16

<p>Northeastern isn’t a tech school. Plus, the class is self-selecting because they want the co-op program so they can get jobs right out of college, and most people don’t apply there if they don’t like the city.</p>

17

<p>25th percentile on the math portion for CalTech is a 770? wow.</p>

18

<p>That’s why you can have AP credit in calc and still be put in remedial math here.</p>

19

<p>"There is a steady decline in retention as math SATs decrease. "</p>

<p>Makes sense to me.</p>

20

<p>Olin’s numbers are accurate.</p>

<p>I think the admissions process really sorts out folks who want to be there, from those who aren’t too sure. When people visit there, they usually either love it or hate it. </p>

<p>My daughter gradu at other colleges. A couple left due to health problems. I believe her graduating class had 73, having started freshman year with 75.</p>