From academics to financial aid...

Colleges & Universities Smith College
1

<p>So, I’m a junior (class of 2009) and have about a bajillion questions regarding all aspects of Smith. I really, REALLY like Smith–it’s my top school and has been for a while. But there are still some lingering doubts…</p>

<p>First off: how is financial aid? Unfortunately, my family falls in the dreaded middle-ground–while we make too much to get serious financial aid, we also don’t make enough to be free of money-woes (especially because I have a twin as well as two younger sibs who are definitely going to college.) Rumor has it Smith is not so generous regarding fin aid; in your experience, does this hold true? We used the College Board calculator to determine EFC–does anyone know if Smith’s estimation for EFC will fall within this range or outside of it? Also, I know merit aid is pretty sparse–does anyone know what kind of stats you to need to receive something like the coveted Zollman Scholarship? (Aiming high, I know. :])</p>

<p>Second off: Academics. I know Smith ranks up there, but what I really want to know is, is it challenging? Will it make me work harder, think harder? I suppose it’s a silly question, but I’m bored silly in most of my classes, all honors and AP. I want to be challenged, want to go somewhere where the profs and classes make interest me and make me work; but more than that, I want to go somewhere where all the students feel like that. So, does Smith fit the bill?</p>

<p>Third: Social life. No, I’m not going to ask the dreaded-male question–quite the opposite, actually. Now, while lurking these boards it seems like there have been quite a few threads whose sole purpose seems to be to reassure the OP that Smith isn’t really that gay. Well, I am–gay, I mean–and I want to know: is Smith as really as accepting/gay-friendly as it’s made out to be? I’m from a rural/not-so-accepting town, so going to a place who will accept me for me is rather important. </p>

<p>Okay, so I realize that this is rather long–but any help/advice/comments would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again in advance…</p>

2

<p>Finaid: There’s no need to be concerned with rumors. If you apply and are accepted you’ll compare the Smith finaid package to the packages from other colleges. </p>

<p>Academics: I assume you’ll be challenged, most students are. Of course there are always a handful of brilliant students at every college/uni for whom even the most rigorous courses are a cakewalk.</p>

<p>Social life: The college and the town are very gay-friendly.</p>

3

<p>Financial aid: impossible for us to say–so much depends on your precise situation (income, assets, and expenses of both you and your family). If you don’t like what you get–especially if another place gave you something better–you can appeal.</p>

<p>Merit aid: Zollmans, and to a lesser extent STRIDE and other merit programs are designed to lure middle-class applicants away from higher-ranked schools. So if Smith knows you’re applying to those schools (they ask what other schools you’re applying to on the application) and they think you’ll get in, that helps your chances of getting merit aid.</p>

<p>Academics: Smith is as challenging as you make it. I went to a high school that prepared me really well for college, but others weren’t so lucky and so Smith seemed a lot harder for them. But that doesn’t mean I skated through–taking upper-level courses and trying subjects outside of my comfort area really pushed me, and it’s possible to do lots of independent work if you’re interested. </p>

<p>Social life: I think Smith is one of the best places in the world to be gay. For the vast majority of students, it’s truly no big deal–you can talk with your friends about a crush on a girl just as easily as you can talk about having a crush on a guy.</p>

<p>Good luck! I hope you continue to be so enthusiastic about Smith!</p>

4

<p>I just reviewed D’s 2008 application, and nowhere did it ask what other schools D was applying to. I think they just assume that if you have awesome SAT Scores, coupled with great grades and extracurriculars (particularly if they are interesting and not just the standard NHS) they will assume that you are applying to other colleges that they would like to beat. Since I’ve never seen a published list of the stats of the Zollman/Stride students, I don’t think anyone can give you more than anecdotes and guesses as to what goes into those decisions. (and yes, my D is going next year as a Zollman/Stride- which makes me very happy, but still gives me no particular insight as to why she was chosen over other very qualified students.)</p>

5

<p>To echo others: FA is an individual factor. If your family <em>really</em> needs it, Smith is more likely than most other colleges to address the aid issue. If your case is borderline, then your guess is as good as anyone else’s.</p>

<p>Social life: Both Smith and Northampton are gay-friendly, on a par with San Francisco and the Village in NYC, although obviously Smith is on a much smaller scale.</p>

<p>Academics: it depends entirely on how rigorous your high school was and how you are willing to challenge yourself. My d. was very prepared – and has never found the classes to be boring or too easy. Some of her friends, however, have struggled despite getting high grades in high school. Again, you never know until you’re in the midst of it.</p>

6

<p>Good questions all around. I’ll give you my take, from someone who is Smith Class of 2009 :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Financial Aid: Like everyone says (though we know it’s not a helpful answer) it’s very individual. It depends on a lot of factors besides just income. Just remember that if financial aid is something very important to you, it’s best if you apply regular decision as opposed to early decision. Officially, Smith will tell you that it won’t make any difference, but in my experience, RD candidates can at least compare and sometimes leverage different offers from different schools to try to negotiate the best deal for themselves. STRIDE and Zollman scholarships are very competitive obviously, there are roughly 600-700 students admitted per class, and there are only five Zollman scholars and less than 100 STRIDEs (I think they award like 50 or so each year). And they use those to sweeten the packages of students they really, really want. Don’t stress too much about getting those, just live your life, do the things that interest you, and see how the FA thing works out. </p>

<p>Academics: Yes, you’ll be challenged. How much depends on what you choose to study and what you put into it. Smith is definitely do-able, but it can also be very challenging. Most students arrive technically very prepared for Smith, they’re usually strong writers, almost always straight-A or nearly straight-A high school students, with enough background knowledge to start. BUT being technically prepared doesn’t mean they’re all equally intellectually prepared. Smith opened up a lot of horizons for me that just didn’t exist before in my head, and really brought a deeper understanding to subjects I knew well. So while I was technically prepared to handle the classes and workload, the intellectual level and the intensity was definitely a step up. </p>

<p>Social Life: OMG. Very gay friendly. Super, duper, duper gay friendly. And yes, a lot of threads do seem to be aimed at assuring people that “the gays” aren’t “a problem,” probably because prospies (and mostly their parents) tend to be a little afraid about the new environment and fixate on this one aspect, which is just a piece of the greater social picture, and its better to think holistically. I chose Smith largely because of how accepting it was of its gay, transgender, queer, and questioning communities. I’m not a part of any of those populations, but I’m also from a minority group and it was encouraging to me to see how friendly the campus was to sexual minorities, who experience equal if not greater opposition as racial minorities in the “outside world”. </p>

<p>Just know that Smith has something a reputation among its gay students for being more of a hookup than a long-term relationship culture. I know women who have had both experiences, some who met one girl on the first day of first-year and are still dating that person three years later, and some who are more, shall we say, casual. And some in between. So there’s scope for a wide array of experiences, and you’ll get a chance to really explore your life as a gay woman.</p>

7

<p>Thank you guys so much for responding (especially SmithieandProud)–it’s nice to here some reassurances, get some answers, all that jazz. :]</p>

8

<p>S&P, do you know the extent to which candidates attempting to leverage finaid offers (as opposed to those who appeal and provide addit info) are ultimate successful? I have heard of schools upping the grant by $2-3K, purportedly for the asking - - but I know of only one family (not at Smith) where that actually happened. In most cases, the schools have offered to review addit financial info and adjust the award if necessary.</p>

<p>As for the STRIDES (and maybe Zollman’s), I recall TheDad reviewing the list of awardees and noting that a number were ED admissions.</p>

9

<p>While I don’t know the precise number of students who were successfully able to increase their financial aid package, my parents had a meeting with Financial Services when we visited during Open Campus four years ago, and my package was increased by a couple of hundred dollars. Not a lot, but every penny helps.</p>

<p>STRIDEs sometimes go to ED candidates, but most go to those who apply RD (because it’s something to entice you to Smith over other, “better” schools). I’m not sure about Zollmans, but I bet they go primarily to RD candidates as well. If you apply to Smith ED, you would <em>probably</em> be not too concerned about the FA package and are committed to attending the school, so Smith doesn’t need to give you any perks to have you choose it over anywhere else.</p>

10

<p>I agree that every little bit helps, but for some, the ED boost is worth more than a couple hundred bucks.</p>

<p>D applied ED, the initial package was fine (about $1.5K over EFC). Her grant was increased after appeal (addit unreimbursed med expenses).</p>

<p>I wouldn’t go so far as to describe ED candidates at even “probably” not too concerned about FA. FA was certainly a concern, but we had a bit of wiggle room and I was willing to take my chances (gamble on a sufficient FA pkg) in order for D to attend the school that was far and away her top choice (and a good fit). </p>

<p>If the package had been a lot less than I expected, D would have declined ED admission and rolled -over to the RD pool, which would have enabled her to compare offers. But, if after comparing packages Smith had been $2-4K more than the others, I would have coughed up the $ b/c it meant so much to D (and I thought Smith was worth it).</p>

11

<p>STRIDEs do go to ED candidates, but if you want to maximize your chances, I would go the RD route is all I’m saying. At least that gives you the option of comparing options from other schools before making a binding decision. And it’s the same with other financial aid issues. It might not make any difference to your ultimate package if you apply ED or RD, but applying RD gives you the option of comparing other offers.</p>

12

<p>NYC, your FA outcome was good, but the prevailing wisdom is NOT to apply ED if financial aid is a concern. If accepted, you would be locked into a school that you cannot afford.</p>

13

<p>Yes, I know that is the conventional wisdom. As I explained, we had some wiggle room and as with all ED admission, the applicant can decline for financial reasons. At Smith, an ED candidate can also decline and ask to be reconsidered for admission in the RD pool. The finaid offer remains the same, but if admitted, she can review all offers. So from my perspective, not much risk.</p>

<p>Also, to I believe the first offer was $3.3K above FAFSA-EFC and the grant after appeal we paid about $1.3K above EFC.</p>

14

<p>“NYC, your FA outcome was good, but the prevailing wisdom is NOT to apply ED if financial aid is a concern. If accepted, you would be locked into a school that you cannot afford.”</p>

<p>THIS IS NOT TRUE!</p>

<p>Schools hate it when students don’t apply ED because they’re afraid the FA offer might not be enough and then feel trapped.</p>

<p>THERE IS NO DANGER IN APPLYING TO YOUR FAVORITE SCHOOL ED IF YOU NEED FA.</p>

<p>Please tell your friends.</p>

<p>It says right on the ED agreement: </p>

<p>“Should a student who applies for financial aid not be offered an award that makes attendance possible, the student may decline the offer of admission and be released from the Early Decision commitment.”</p>

<p>A good reason not to apply ED is if you want to compare FA offers from various schools, but then you’re probably not obsessed with one school!</p>

15

<p>A good reason not to apply ED is if you want to compare FA offers from various schools, but then you’re probably not obsessed with one school!</p>

<p>Honestly, I disagree. I am absolutely and without a doubt obsessed with Smith, and it is very much my top school. Buuut, I didn’t apply ED because I wanted to compare FA offers. I’m paying for the majority of whatever school I attend myself, so while I would lovelovelove to go to Smith, FA is a really big deal to me–hence the RD. Sometimes reality steps in on the whole dream school thing, which sucks, but that’s life. :]</p>

16

<p>I find that puzzling, because being obsessed should mean that you’re dying to go to Smith if you possibly can, and that you wouldn’t want to attend a cheaper school if there’s any way you can go to Smith. Plus, there’s the ED admissions advantage: Smith’s CDS says that 64% of ED applicants were accepted vs. 47% of RD applicants, so you have the danger that Smith’s FA package could be the best, but you just missed the cut by applying RD. That would be a bummer. </p>

<p>BTW, I hope you’re admitted, and that Smith’s FA package is the best! :)</p>

17

<p>Not puzzling at all, an applicant can be totally obsessed with a schools, but her family finances may be such that absolutely every dollar counts - - or maybe the family could scrape together an extra $2K for the student’s heart’s desire, but an extra $4.5K would be too much. Yes, there is a risk that the Smith finaid package would fit the bill, but w/o the ED boost the student may not be admitted - - but that’s a chance a lot of finaid candidates have to make (and why opponents complain about ED favoring the affluent).</p>

<p>PS - good luck ajlangs</p>

18

<p>“maybe the family could scrape together an extra $2K for the student’s heart’s desire, but an extra $4.5K would be too much”</p>

<p>Still puzzled. If the ED offer came up $4.5K too short, the offer is declined, and she proceeds with RD as if she never applied ED.</p>

<p>“and why opponents complain about ED favoring the affluent”</p>

<p>But it doesn’t; they only think it does.</p>

19

<p>If the ED offer came up $4.5K too short, the offer is declined, and she proceeds with RD as if she never applied ED.</p>

<p>Hmm. I think you’re kind of missing the point. Of course, this may just be my situation, but I have no idea how much money I’ll get from other schools; therefore, there is no set value of money. That is, there is no certain amount of money that Smith could give me that would mean I absolutely could go–it’s all relative. Applying ED would make no sense, as I would have had no idea of what other school’s would offer me. </p>

<p>But it doesn’t; they only think it does.</p>

<p>That’s ridiculous–ED very much favors the wealthy. Students of a lower socio-economic status simply don’t have the luxury of attending whatever school they want–financial aid will be a big part of their decision. Most literally can’t afford to agree to go to one school without checking out other (and possibly cheaper) options. Heck, I’m from a relatively well-off middle class family and I don’t have that luxury! I can only imagine the hell people even who are even less well-off go through…</p>

<p>And by the way, thanks everyone for the good wishes! I hope I can get in/go to Smith as well. :]</p>

20

<p>Fair enough, but I think you’re not obsessed with Smith in the traditional way. ED is for applicants who decide that one school is their first-choice and who are certain that they will attend it if accepted and can afford the financial aid offer. You are simply not sufficiently obsessed because you will consider another school that makes you a better FA offer. There really are middle-class kids in your situation who are so obsessed that they apply ED.</p>

<p>We just disagree about the meaning of “afford.” In my view, a student can either afford a school or not (we’re talking about differences in the thousands, not hundreds). A student can indeed better afford a cheaper school.</p>

<p>At schools that meet full need, the ED and RD FA offers will be the same. If you can’t afford it at ED time, you can’t afford it at RD time either. ED just gets you a higher likelihood of admission at most schools (because schools like applicants that like them!).</p>