Hi everyone, thanks for all the advice. I’ll look into online classes for DS2 and extra support and DS1’s school. I wouldn’t want DS2 to take local community college classes. Our local community college is dysfunctional. According to DS1 and a couple other seniors who took CC classes over the summer, the community college classes are easier than their high school classes. It is mainly for remedial students who have a difficult time grasping basic math and English concepts.
Writing a lot of in-class essays could be a good thing, as long as there is some feedback, but it does seem odd that there are NO longer-term essays or papers. What about revising skills?
However, a good summer writing class or a writing tutor or an online class would probably suffice for experience with essays, especially if there truly is a lot of in-class work on writing.
As far as reading, in AP English classes, even if the books are not assigned, couldn’t your child read some of the AP recommended texts? It seems like excerpts are used a lot these days but students can read on their own.
Count me as another person surprised that the high school you describe has such a high Ivy acceptance rate. My kid’s school is ~50% larger, and has zero kids accepted to Ivies most years. Last year, one kid went to Stanford and it was so remarkable that the entire school knew about it and is still talking about it.
That kid reports that their Stanford English classes are a breeze compared to AP Lit, and I’m not surprised. My kid is in AP Lit this year, and the volume and quality of what she’s writing is higher than what English 130 at Yale expected a million years ago. That a school with essentially no assigned writing sends multiple kids to Ivies every year makes me think there’s more to the story.
I’m also another one wondering if he’s actually unprepared, or just adjusting to no longer being effortlessly at the top. I went to a nowhere podunk high school with no AP classes, and I knew a person who went to a high school where Algebra 2 was the highest math class offered. We both did fine once we settled in, but it was a lot of work and the first semester was rough.
Part of DS1’s low GPA is probably him adjusting to college, but all Bs, B minuses, and a C plus makes me think there’s something else to it. Easiest culprit is his high school background because socially he’s doing fine in college.
Re: High volume of Ivy accpetances. 3/700 is not a lot. The other two kids who got in had major advantages. One girl was a first-gen low-income latina matched through Questbridge. The other went to a prestigious Ivy League “feeder” prep school in another state before moving here in the middle of high school. Not surprisingly, she’s doing quite well at her Ivy.
Any number greater than zero from one high school is a “high volume” of Ivy League acceptances.
I’m sure the first-gen, low-income Latina doesn’t regard those things as major advantages, but whatever.
I am putting in another plug for boarding school.
We are in a great school district. We moved here for the schools. What brought home how bad the writing curriculum was his applications to boarding school. He had no idea how to write an essay. He needed a writing sample and didn’t have one because he was rarely assigned writing work. The teachers simply had too much work to spend time grading essays.
The school actively opposed any idea of advanced classes – they even did away with the geometry track. The high school was going to be more of the same, but with more drugs and alcohol. And a whole lot of stress. And (in my opinion) shockingly bad college matriculation for the community that feeds the school. People spend a lot of money on tutors, test prep, college counselors, club sports, summer programs, you name it.
We looked at enrichment options, local privates, online schools, and then boarding schools. After reviewing a few websites it was apparent that boarding school was the solution to the problem. Best parenting choice we ever made – although it broke us a little to let him go. He has grown so much personally and academically and is so so so very happy there. We are so grateful for the opportunity. It is a game changer for our son.
The writing instruction has been phenomenal. DS needed remedial attention to get his writing up to the private school standards, but now he is in line for the advanced writing classes. The teachers spend time with him out of class working with him. In their spare time. I can’t imagine a better writing education than what he is getting.
At least look at boarding school – once you factor in all of the extracurricular expenses of public school (not to mention the cost of feeding a teenage boy, lol), the comparative expense doesn’t look quite as horrific. It has to be kid driven, though – do it if your son would thrive with the independence and loves learning for the sake of learning.
There truly is a surprising amount of financial aid (grants) available at boarding schools (a third to a half of the students get significant aid), but there is also a lot of competition for it. Honestly, for my kid, spending college savings on his formative high school years even if it means he attends a less expensive college, is a no brainer.
“the critical take away from HS needs to be developing good work and study habits.” I’d add, developing some lust for learning-- and that goes well beyond any uber-drive for top grades.
Interesting thread. BS was simply not an option for us, from a philosophical perspective. I wasn’t going to send them away too young and felt even the hs years were too young. And homeschool isn’t for everyone. (I respect it tremendously, but you have to work to create a full opportunity. That’s critical in one’s success.)
We knew, from pre-K, that our public options were in the dumps. So we were looking for options even before 7th. Don’t auto dismiss the many fine parochial schools (or especially Jesuit high schools.) * Note: I have to edit out specfics, but would add them back if the convo turns that way.* But for now, this is about OP’s middle and high school quandry Ultimately, ours wound up in a local private. Even then, you still need to monitor the quality, through time. And in any school setting, I find it does matter much that parents are seen and known, to peers as well as teachers and admins. Not to ride herd, but to be part of that community. We found it benefitted our girls.
This complaint about not enough writing is common. I sat with other parents of (then) recent grads in a focus group where they claimed their kids had never written a 10 or 20 page paper, while I knew my kids had. Same very small cohort.
But there’s much more to a successful k-12 experience than that. Don’t fall into focusing on one particular problem or so. As I said, you want their relationship to learning to be empowered. That stands the test of time. It’s not just about competitiveness for tippy top colleges or standing at the top of the class. Yes, supplement where you can. The talk about TIP or CTY here is some of the best I’ve seen.
If kids get into a tippy top from OP’s hs, there has to be something working. Even if you suppose these are “opportunity” kids (given a boost, despite some hs issues,) the adcoms must see these admits have the potential to fit and thrive. Its not simply about taking “some” kids; they have to see a record that those they do admit do well, aren’t just dithering around, hoping to get enough credits to eventually grad in some easy major. (As ever, who knows about athetic recruits?)
There may be assets to this particular hs that aren’t apparent from an easy view. Or the strengths may not correspond to OP’s older son’s interest areas. Counting the number who do get to a TT, though, isn’t an accurate way to judge.
I’d agree it’s not uncomon to face first semester challenges in college. Many kids have never been away from the structure they’ve always known. A bigger question about the freshman is how he now rebounds.
If he’s pre-med, it can be especially difficult, when a college ardently weeds the number of those. Or any major where what he expected, when in hs, isn’t what the study turns out to be. With the right personal resources, he will find his way, grow, and benefit. And if it’s truly, simply the wrong college, you consider a transfer.
I agree with @lookingforward on pretty much everything she said. And to be clear, bs is obviously not for everyone. It has to make sense for the particular kid and family. For our kid, our “great” public school was squelching kiddo’s voracious love of learning- so much so that it was effecting him socially and emotionally. A drastic intervention was called for. I cried the day I figured out that (the right) BS was exactly the intervention he needed. Not tears of joy.
I totally respect the philosophy of not sending kids away too young. Thing is, some kids are ready to launch earlier than others. BS is a soft launch. There are lots of adult eyeballs on these kids (at some schools more than others). I am ok with not being a presence on campus because I trust (vetted) the administration and my kid does share a lot of info. There is community, but it is different. Parents are in it, too, just not dealing with the minutiae. I miss dinners with kiddo, but not the schlepping to activities. I miss watching games, but not the stinky laundry.
But I don’t want to hijack. Back to the discussion. The public middle school conundrum is such a huge problem.
These are respectable grades from a selective college; OP’s son is not “in over his head in every subject”. I am certain that his college did not over-estimate his chance of success at their school when they admitted him. Better grades will await him next semester. That said, I commend OP for her pro-activeness in her children’s education.
How did your son do on the AP tests? If he did well (4 or 5), it may be that the HS class is better than you think it is.
Our HS required one long research paper junior year. For one of mine it was a bit of disaster as the teacher did not give him good feedback and then he didn’t get it back until school was over. It was all done through an online portal and the teacher’s comment were not clear. Otherwise, most of the writing was short papers or essays.
Know that many HSs get no Ivy acceptances or one every few years. Unless this is a complete one-off, then the school may be better than you think, at least for your area.
I would make sure your college son understands that he just has to work harder and seek out help. Yes, his HS may not be as good as the top HSs in states with great academics. That is the reality. But he was good enough to get into an Ivy and now has to learn how to be successful there.
Does your school district offer an IB program at one of the other high schools? In our experience, that program was very writing-oriented.
You seem to want to place blame someplace for your son’s first term grades. Please don’t think I’m being snarky, but the student needs to shoulder this “blame”…not the high school. All Ivy League schools have tutorial services and writing centers. All of the professors have office hours. Grades are seldom based in only the final…so your son should have had an indication of his grades all along in the term.
The adjustment to college is a huge one for some kids. They need to learn to balance their social lives and new found freedom and time with their need to study.
Remember, in college, classes seldom meet daily. Students are expected to do a lot more independent work than In high school. There is a lot more time during the week when students are not attending classes, but should be studying a portion of that time.
We and you have no way to know whether he was attending classes regularly and on time, completing and turning in assignments on time, etc. Time management in college is way different than time management in High School.
This school would not have accepted your son if they didn’t think he could succeed, so something in his application indicated good preparation for this Ivy.
I think your son needs to understand that college IS harder for some students…until the get how to study, manage time etc.
I’d lay out the supports available at his school. I would also suggest he speak to his advisor about the classes he is taking. I don’t recall if you mentioned his major…or if any of these courses are in his major field of study…but that should be looked at too.
See how the second semester goes. Like i said earlier, Ivies have good support services…they don’t want to see kids flunk out. But yes…that does happen If the student doesn’t take the initiative to seek help.
I’m unclear whether less than stellar writing skills are the actual reason for his grades not meeting the bar that he had met in high school. My guess is…that isn’t all of the reason.
I have a friend who blamed the schools because they weren’t giving hard enough spelling words to her daughter who was gifted. I looked at her and said “Can’t you just give her a list every week?”
Watch ‘A River Runs Through It’. Norman learned to write by his father giving him essays, correcting them and saying “Again. Half as long.” Over and over. It’s boring and hard work for the parents too. If you don’t want to do it, hire a tutor. Send your son to a writing workshop in the summer (several really good ones at universities like Iowa). Have him take Latin. Have him read really good literature.
You could move but I doubt you’ll find a better public school. 700 kids graduating and no one else has an issue? Three kids at Ivies and I bet several hundred more at good colleges, some even majoring in English or journalism or technical writing.
If you really want to change the school, run for the school board. Otherwise, there isn’t anything you can do.
I’m going to add to the chorus of those suggesting you consider BS IF the only thing holding you back is finances. More than half the kids at DS’ BS (George School in PA) received some kind of FA, and with a desire for SES diversity, there was a dedicated pool for middle income families.
If you have other reasons for not wanting to consider BS (which the vast majority of parents do – that’s why so few kids attend BS!), that’s fine. Our experience was that because they take so many kids with such vastly different preparation, they do a pretty terrific job of meeting kids where they are in 9th and getting them to where they need to be.
If you want to stay put, there are many ways to provide enrichment, particularly over the summer, if that’s the goal. JhU/CTY, programs at CC, programs run by colleges and BS, colleges run by museums and public TV, etc. They vary in terms of cost so it is possible that BS with FA could cost less than free form enrichment.
I think it’s possible for a high school to produce graduates who look better on paper than they actually are, so while it is surprising that 3 kids of 700 got into Ivies out of this horrendous school, I think it’s possible to produce graduates who are not well prepared for college although their record suggests otherwise. I agree with the posters who believe your kid will figure it all out, probably by the end of this year.
At some level, I think you need to assess what you are willing to do in your current situation, financially, likewise, driving, living, etc. These are really personal choices.
OP, Have your second kid taking online courses from CTY - It costs about $800 for a 3 month course (I think), just a little more for 6 months, self-pace. My kids LOVED/love it. You can watch the video multiple times, they are very good instructions, and the materials are very in-depth and challenging. There is a real person who keeps checking on you if you have any questions. It’s the only way to supplement the missing knowledge that you think you may have missed from the regular school.
Our schools are decent, just based on average test scores and going to good colleges. But my kids were/are bored to death, and when they were in elementary school up I used to share my grievance about how the schools should be more challenging. But then I realized no one shared the same feeling as I did, and we don’t want to be THAT parent who made waves, we gave the kids our own materials to work on (math, chemistry, physics, coding). And then we signed them up for CTY and it’s pretty much on cruise control since my D19 was in 5th grade. we didn’t have to spend much time giving them materials. They have always have 2 courses each year, whatever courses they are interested in or want to get ahead on. They never took a supplement course for writing, though. Our schools did a decent job at it so they never felt the need to do additional work.
Good luck with your kids, your ivy kid will thrive, it’s a good thing that your son is at the ivy instead of at a tough public school. They will help him along as they have amazing resources there. Definitely have your second child taking online courses to give him the foundation that he needs for standardize testing and subsequently for college.
This sounds like our school. One teacher never gave tests or papers because he didn’t want to do any work- great role model! We did an online AP US history because everyone got 1’s and 2"s (but he bought them ice cream,his typical MO) and my kid got a 5. We didn’t care about the test but this kid is actually interested in history which was not cool and she hid it well at school 
We treated school like girl scouts or something. Just kind of for social reasons. The real learning happened at home, from reading I suppose.
I much preferred this, honestly, to a high pressure, stressful high school life with hours of homework. They made good use of their time participating in the arts outside of school as well as in school.
That said, they did struggle first year at Ivies but found their way, as will yours no doubt.
I wish it was that simple, what I also realized is that no one wants to rock the boat. And especially if you (general you) are in the minority, forget it.