You could do what one of my friend’s did. With school district approval, she pulled out her daughter for the math and science courses and had her daughter attend school for the English, history, humanities courses. [Her husband was a researcher (science) and Mom was/is an electrical engineer]. Our school district was strong in everything, so I was surprised that the parents did it.
They had a college-age tutor who saw “Amanda” at the end of her 1/2 day of middle school. Then, they corrected her “homework” and answered questions at night. They had a weekly schedule of course completion, which they turned into the district’s homeschool office on a monthly basis or whenever the district requested it. The district gave Amanda credit for each course.
Amanda didn’t have a strong grasp of math concepts, so they began to instruct her in 7th grade. You could do it for English and choose a homeschool curriculum that you could do at night.
Really appreciate all the feedback I’m getting here. Thanks everyone. Although the school is academically weak, it is extracurricularly amazing, which is why I suspect 1 to 3 kids matriculate to an Ivy from every graduating class. @ucbalumnus A students mostly get 3s, which is technically passing and also gets credit at our state flagship. Admin is happy, students are happy, parents are happy. However, I personally believe a 3 in multiple AP subjects (like DS1 received his sophomore and junior years) is indicative of a rather weak grasp on the material. Passing an AP test doesn’t mean you mastered its content
I just looked through the school’s profile. It says that around 90% of students go to a two or four year college after graduation, but only a little more than half of all students get a bachelor’s degree 6 years after matriculation. It seems like the school produces students who seem competent on paper but can’t handle college-level work
Our school board has very little to do with curriculum choices which are largely determined by NYS. The problem with OP’s school is they are teaching to the AP test, not for skills one will actually need in college.
Although not as bad as A students typically scoring 1 or 2 on AP tests, A students typically scoring 3 suggests that the school’s AP courses are deficient by AP test standards.
The five point AP score scale fairly obviously corresponds to the usual letter grade system (ABCDF = 54321). Normally, A students in high school become A and B students in college, so one would expect A students in AP courses to score A and B equivalents on the AP tests (i.e. 5 and 4 scores).
This could be more of a problem where the actual college courses that AP courses cover similar material to are commonly evaluated on larger projects and papers (particularly English composition and literature courses) rather than in class tests.
Now I’m curious what you think did get him an Ivy acceptance.
Tippy tops don’t generally go for 3 scores on APs, unless he did not report those and had other strong AP test results that he did share. What were his SAT or ACT breakdowns?
For our kids applying to colleges, it’s not the school averages (SAT/ACT, SAT2s or AP) that matter to their own chances or reflect their individual learning. We’ve got 2 issues here- his own college performance so far/how prepared, and then some outside measure of the hs, itself.
A 24 ACT Composite average for the whole class isn’t “bad,” per se. We’d need more info. Eg, some hs or districts require every student to take the SAT or ACT, that can bring down averages. What would tell more is performance among the top x% of seniors. Their gpa to their various test scores.
A 90% matric rate to 2 or 4 year colleges is good. But what are the 2 year colleges? In some areas, they’re more vo-tech. You described the local cc as heavy on remedial work. Plus, how ofen does a high school report who completed college degrees in x years? That’s usually a figure colleges report. They collect their own data. A hs would need to track down every hs grad over the years.
To put my previous post more simply: We just never relied on the schools to educate our kids. We tried to turn the lack of rigor into a plus by encouraging EC’s in and out of school. The lack of homework meant more time for those. Reading at home, and using online courses and other resources, rounded things out. I will say that our school asked kids to write papers, but there was no instruction on how to write them!
I do not think the message should be that students educated in mediocre schools should avoid rigorous colleges. I have read that the well-prepared students are often jaded, and that professors prefer the kids who didn’t go to prep schools etc. The students who are new to real learning at college can be the most excited, once their skills catch up in the first year or so.
If the Ivy accepted your son, he did not “over-reach” (I hate that comment). They saw success in his application.
Our kids went to an Ivy and a top LAC from our basically just-adequate high school–they were under-prepared. Both breezed through HS. They do both write well, though (I teach college writing, so that helped. )
D initially went to a less competitive OOS flagship and then transferred to the LAC. She did a lot of extra researching and work to keep up with the other kids. Her major required a lot of history knowledge, for instance, and we didn’t have AP Euro or World, and it seemed like everyone else knew stuff she didn’t. So she’d go to the library after classes and look up everything that came up in class convo, along with another friend from a similar school. (like ducks, paddling like mad underwater though looking like they’re gliding). She ended up PBK, but worked her backside off to get there.
S had an up and down experience for personal reasons (depresssion), but when he worked hard, he got A’s at his Ivy. When he had issues, he didn’t. Working hard was necessary for him to excel–again, he had to start from a different place from most of the kids from the “better” high schools. He finished strong after some time off and was a prof favorite because he enjoyed classroom discussion and writing about complex ideas.
So I agree with others that it’s not the HS at this point–your S1 will figure out that what he needs to do to close the gap is different from the “better prepared” kids, but that he has the smarts to do it–he wouldn’t be there otherwise. So I think that’s what you should emphasize to him–getting the work done and going for help when needed.
People have given you great ideas for S2 to supplement. I would just add to discuss this same thing ahead of time–learn to recognize when you’re behind the eightball and figure out what you need to do to catch up. If he knows that this is likely as he begins at his eventual college, he’ll be ready to tackle it and succeed.
Sounds like your son did just fine after attending this high school.
And a 24 ACT is well above the national average.
Maybe writing just isn’t your son’s strength. Seems presumptuous to blame a student’s college grade on a high school teacher(s). The college would not have accepted him if they didn’t think he could handle the work.
Met with my kids AP teacher during parent weekend. Teacher said usually the whole class gets 5’s on the test with a couple of kids scoring 4’s. Expectation was a 5.
That’s why I don’t mind paying for BS. The expectations are higher and the kids are prepared for any college.
Kids from mediocre schools can catch up and Ivies know that but they also know that some don’t. There are programs in place at Ivys to keep some from dropping out. Many switch to easier fields. Was like this whenI was an Ivy student years ago. Now even more programs. People know who is not keeping up and so do the teachers. That doesn’t mean every Ivy acceptance results in success. Many transfer, some take the easy classes, some buckle down and do the hard work.
Poor preparation in hs will definitely be felt down the road. Even if the intentions were good, exposure to expository and research takes time to learn. Most lackng skills I saw were writing, ability to speak well in class and math/science issues.
The schools aren’t perfect at acceptance either. There are kids at Ivies who will be at the bottom of their class just like any other school. It’s not a matter of intelligence but an issue of time. Kids may not have enough time to catch up and still do their work.
This Ivy offers a required writing seminar for freshman. My kids’ colleges did as well. No one was exempt from those required classes because they were designed to help the students learn to be the kind of writers they needed to be for college. Kids came into the classes with varying levels of writing expertise. The course helped level the playing field.
It sounds like this student might have not done anything extra to get a better grade in this course…office hours study groups, writing center, etc. I would explore this with this student before blaming the HS.
In addition, the OP states that all of this student’s grades were less lofty than in high school…which is not uncommon for first semester freshmen…some of whom just need to learn low to do college…which is so much different than high school in terms of student ownership of everything.
Agree, but also note that college will redistribute high school A students across the A and B (with some C and lower) grade range. Even the most grade inflated Ivy League colleges will have some students (presumed to have been high school A students) getting B (and occasionally lower) grades.
A couple of ideas: Are there other teachers who teach the AP English classes? could you talk to them? could you share your concerns with school admin? It might be hard for them to hear this, but you do have a small point.
something about low AP scores that we’ve seen at our HS (where very few kids go somewhere besides state schools/cc); So many AP classes are offered as dual enrollment classes; you get the college credit. Those classes mandate that kids take AP tests, yet the grade in the class and college credit trumps AP scores. So - the kids work hard for that grade; and can care less about the AP test.
In this case, dual credit and AP are double coverage – it increases the chance of getting subject credit and advanced placement for the course (if the college accepts one but not the other), but does not give double credit.
But since the AP test is like another final exam for the course, wouldn’t normal preparation for final exams translate to the AP test, so that students should not be doing a lot worse of the AP test than on the course’s final exam? Unless the course’s grading standards are more lax than AP scoring standards…
But a top tier college can take the AP scores seriously. For an admit, the adcom impressions are what matters.
I’d caution that any argument pro-boarding school can also have its set of counterarguments. It’snt just going to BS that makes one smarter or enhances student learning. In fact, some BS and preps have classes tailored to writing the Common App essay and sometimes you’ll see the AP test prep listed as a course, following the actual class. So sure, there can be an “expectation” of a high AP score. Not arguing, just mentioning.
