You also may want to click on the site for “friendliest students,” an attribute that seems especially important to your daughter.
Regarding costs, this older Forbes article did like schools such as Amherst, Williams and Hamilton for full-pay families:
Thanks for all the Midwest recommendations. Honestly, I think D would love many things about many of the Midwest schools, except for the distance. It’s an idea I need to get used to as well. She’s already agreed to visit some schools in Ohio. St Olaf sounds like a really fun place. I will look into the other suggestions as well. I really appreciate them.
Thank you for the suggestions. I’m happy to hear he is enjoying Williams! It seems to be consistently mentioned for great math and music opportunities. D didn’t love the idea of a winter term, but we’ve read too many great things to take it off the list.
There are great winter study classes. For music people you can participate in an opera and there is a new music festival. They have three weeks off before the session and one after so it all evens out in terms of time
Oh, she would love that, also the breaks before and after! It’s hard to talk to her about colleges this year. She is already so stressed about maintaining her grades. I’m sure the idea of a winter term at this point in her life sounds painful. It must just be so overwhelming for them. She does seem to have very strong opinions when we visit in person, so hopefully we can rely on that going forward.
Thanks goldbug. I think as long as the political climate isn’t disruptive, she would be ok. I appreciate your feedback.
And Princeton is my personal favorite of them all. We used to take the kids to a farm nearby in the fall when they were little. Their children’s library is adorable. Princeton is a very special place.
Generally, more commuter-based colleges tend to have less political activity centered around the college – to the extent that the students are involved in political activity, they tend take their political activity home with them. At more residential colleges, “home” is at the college, so students involved in political activity do it at the college.
I assume she is doing a music supplement with music resume, recording/video and music letter(s) of recommendation (1-2).
I like a lot of the Colleges that Change Lives (Wooster is on there). She might like to look at Clark University. They have interesting majors and the music is excellent. It is in Worcester MA, and the college is very involved with the city community. Boston is not far either. I remember they offer merit.
Yes. This is a tough issue. There are plenty of people who could spend $90,000 or more per year for a bachelor’s, but who find this to be difficult to afford and also difficult to justify. It can be very hard to decide between spending the big bucks at a famous university versus a more affordable bachelor’s degree at an in-state public university (and you have quite a few very good ones in New York).
I also have some doubt regarding whether a bachelor’s degree is worth paying full cost at a private university. You could very well end up spending more than $90,000/year for university. I thought that Tufts was already past that point, some others on your list are close, and costs will increase from one year to the next. I would expect that $400,000 for four years is entirely possible. This of course does not address the additional issue that many students take longer than four years, and a dual degree is one reason for some students to take longer than four years. Unfunded graduate degrees are also possible (such as a master’s degree).
I think that you need to set a budget as soon as your reasonably can. Your daughter might very well end up with a full pay acceptance to Yale, Tufts, and several SUNY’s, and I do not think that you want to be arguing and wondering about whether it is worth the cost in April. Assuming that you set a budget that is significantly higher than the full cost of attending a SUNY in-state, you might want to also decide whether any money not spent for undergrad would be available for graduate school.
I did go to an expensive (and stressful) famous private university for my bachelor’s degree (as a math major), and then went to an expensive famous private university for my master’s (in a sub-field of applied math). In graduate school I found myself studying alongside quite a few students who had attended and done very well at less expensive public universities, in many cases including their in-state public flagship. With a bachelor’s from a public university my fellow graduate students still got their master’s, in a sub-field of math, at a highly ranked private university (Stanford in this particular case). The rest of my immediate family has success at attending the affordable public university for their bachelor’s degree, and then the highly ranked university for their graduate degree.
I do not generally think of Yale as “low stress”. However, attending a highly ranked university, or maybe any university, might be stressful for one student and not as stressful for another. At least to me the most important thing for a student who attends a highly ranked and academically demanding university is that they need to want to do it. The desire to work hard needs to come from inside the student themselves.
Regarding music and math, I think that a student can major in math and also take the music classes that interest them. This would suggest that your daughter might want to attend a university that has the music classes, but probably does not need to complete a dual major.
I am hard pressed to think of any schools to suggest that aren’t already on your list and would be preferable to a SUNY without being expensive. U.Mass Amherst is very good for both music and math, and has some merit aid for out of state students, but is large. McGill is similarly very good for both music and math, but again is large and is known for grade deflation, which could be stressful. I sometimes get Amherst College and Williams College confused. At least one (or both?) of them is very good for both music and math, but either of them is likely to be expensive for someone who does not qualify for need based aid.
Hi compmom. Interesting that you mention the music supplement. I’ve read that unless you can perform at a conservatory level, one should not submit a performance piece as a supplement. D started private piano lessons in grade school, her music teacher moved away and we had the opportunity to continue lessons remotely. This was at the beginning of covid while life was just chaotic. We decided to stop the lessons.
She was also participating in competitive robotics at the time, which is very time consuming. After settling into her freshman year of high school, she kept mentioning that she wanted to study more music. So we found her a new piano teacher and she’s been playing again for over a year. She really likes her teacher who has tried to talk her into applying to conservatories, but I think she (the teacher) has decided that she may not be competitive enough. Also, D has ZERO desire to limit herself to music performance. She enjoys playing but doesn’t NEED to play. She does, however, seem to love music and musical things. She can’t wait to study more music theory, music history. She loves musical theater, choir, watching YouTube videos analyzing music pieces. But she is not an advanced musician. She is still involved in robotics- she’s the programmer for her team. Computer programming is another area she might explore in college.
I do not think it would be advantageous for her to submit a performance piece as a supplement. I think her piano teacher would write a wonder recommendation for her. That’s something we might consider.
Re: music supplement, I’ve actually heard (from a music teacher at Stanford and from one at Duke) that it can only help at those two institutions. The musician in question was a violinist who has achieved a low-advanced level (certainly they wouldn’t be competitive for any of the famous conservatories, nor would their music teacher recommend that they major in music.) Both teachers were encouraging this student to submit a music supplement, knowing exactly how well the student played. The Stanford music professor said, in effect, that if this kid were applying to Stanford, the videos of their performances (average by Stanford standards though they were) would give them a small admissions boost. And that even if the videos were not up to par, it couldn’t HURT.
If your daughter has recent performance videos to share, I think it’s worth adding them to the mix (both piano and vocal – why not?) She’s not applying as a music major so I wouldn’t consider them auditions – but they do substantiate her strong interest in this field and show that she’s not just tied to books all the time.
(ETA of course other schools might vary, and I wouldn’t send, say, a large choral performance where she’s indistinguishable from a crowd. But even if you have to make a video of her playing something that she’s recently worked on, I think it might be a useful exercise. @Mwfan1921 or other admissions experts might have more color to add.)
I appreciate the input regarding the music supplement. I’ve read a lot of information over the last few months and perhaps I’m confusing supplements for BM students with supplements for BA students.
Currently we are trying to figure out what schools D wants to apply to. Once we are more settled on that, I will explore the details of the applications. It’s nice to know there are people here who can help. I appreciate all of this feedback tremendously. This is a very overwhelming process.
@WittgensteinWasSad you are probably right about not doing a full supplement. I have read that it can actually hurt chances if the level is not high enough to justify submission. That said, her application will include listing of any musical activities and you can ask schools about a recommendation from her teacher, which can cover things beyond talent and include work ethic, easy to work with, and so on.
Since Kenyon is on your list, I thought I’d chime in, since my daughter graduated from Kenyon this spring and did a lot of music activities there. She wasn’t a music major or minor, but she took private lessons in her primary instrument all 4 years (except for the semester abroad), added voice lessons at some point + played her wind instrument in the symphonic band the whole time. She really enjoyed all of it and had a great rapport with her music professors. They’re pretty serious there: if you’re enrolled in lessons, you have to do a jury, play from memory and get graded even if you aren’t a music major or minor.
Overall, she had a fantastic experience at Kenyon. She double majored in the humanities/social sciences, so I can’t comment on their math program but I heard it’s solid. We’re not a full pay family, so we really needed that merit aid.
St. Olaf is a great suggestion as well.
This is excellent advice. And it may very well indicate that I’m not asking the right question. She is, without a doubt, an incredibly dedicated and conscientious student, but she is not chasing rank and prestige. In fact, she may want to avoid it. She’s minimally involved in this college search. I’m trying to find the right fit given her preferences and our budget(?). She’s considering math b/c she’s good at it, its relatively easy for her and she enjoys it. I think this makes it a sensible starting point until she has further clarity. High quality music opportunities and a down-to-earth student body are her top priorities.
And your advice about an affordable undergraduate education really resonates. She’s learning Japanese on her own. She’d like to travel. Financial flexibility can make life more fun.
Re: distance. The only criteria we had as parents was that a college either be within a 3 hour drive if our house OR near close friends or a relative. We have a large network of family and friends so really this didn’t limit our kids’ college options much.
That said. We had one kid who went to college about 2 hours and 10 minutes and an easy drive from our house. The other went all the way to the opposite coast…about 3000 miles away (but near friends and relatives). Frankly, we saw the kid who went to school on the opposite coast more than we saw the kid who went only a couple of hours away.
It also took not that long for the opposite coast kid to fly home. And she was very good at dealing with airline snafus.
The Midwest isn’t that far away, and there are airports there! Check to see how travel is handled to these airports from these colleges. Most have shuttle rides especially during break times, so kids can get to and from the airports.
Some of the suggestions in the Midwest are worthy of consideration!
Thank you, Motherprof. A girl from her high school is starting at Kenyon this year. They did musical theater and choir together. I believe I read that Kenyon is very strong in the humanities? I’m happy to hear your daughter had a great experience! If we make it to the Cleveland area, we will definitely visit. I have heard the campus is lovely.
You’re very welcome. Kenyon is actually closer to Columbus than Cleveland. Yes, very strong in the humanities, but sciences are good there, too (my daughter’s two close friends were pre-med, and they were happy with the school).
My daughter was also a theater kid, and she found theater very competitive at Kenyon (but still had opportunities to participate). And yes, the campus is gorgeous.
Best of luck with your search! It all works out just fine.
If your student is willing to look at CWU you should definitely add CMU to the list
Thanks burghdad- Her piano teacher suggested Oberlin and CMU. Her father has suggested both CWU and CMU. I’d like to keep her away from hyper-competitive STEM schools. I don’t think it’s the right environment for her. I’m inclined to avoid CMU, Cornell, etc based on what I’ve read/heard. My impression of CWU is that it’s a bit less cutthroat? But I don’t know. The Fiske guide to colleges has become my best friend 