full scholarship quesitons to ask

Parents Forum
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<p>To elaborate a bit on the 3.5 school, I think it’s overall average, not per term, but will check. Also, they award good AP credit so D would start with a year’s worth allowing her to take slightly lighter loads. She plans to double major in Cultural (medical) Anthropology and Biology. She’s a highly organized student. </p>

<p>We recently had a five-day school break and visited a college Sun-Tues. D came home Friday and worked on homework. Went to Calc extra help session Sat morning and out with friends most of day. Sat night did some reading but mostly texting. Worked her job 8 hours Sun after which we drove part way to college visit. Did a bit more reading/texting in car on way home Tuesday, talked with friends after arriving at 8, and was in bed by 10. She’s got five AP classes, two are Physics and Calc BC, and the teachers are no sluffs.</p>

<p>H & I laughed that while D had Tuesday’s homework done the previous Friday, college S would have been doing homework on Tuesday night that was due the past Friday. Completely different kids. D has always been able to painlessly and quietly “git 'er done!”</p>

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<p>I would agree with the others who mentioned the GPA. I have a friend whose very smart S is in danger of losing his full tuition scholarship because he has a 3.3 GPA and needs a 3.5 by years end. His Mother said she wished her son did not use his AP scores to bypass calc 1 and 2. Big mistake. Her S is having a difficult time in calc 3 (or whatever they call it) and is working very hard to get that grade up. Her advice is to not use AP scores to pass out of any math/science classes.</p>

<p>Congrats to your D!</p>

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<p>Our S had the AP credits & could have opted out of many courses but retook all of them, which allowed him a much easier transition from HS to college. (He had >60 AP & college course credits when he started but they’d only give him the max 60 credits.) Some friends’ kids choose to challenge & take the higher level courses and had a much tougher time academically. Our S took 14 AP exams and got 5s in 12 (including 2 self-studied) and 4s in the other two. He did take all the AP physics and also AP calc.</p>

<p>Our S is highly organized as well & has learned to do physics and calculus in doctor’s waiting rooms and anywhere he finds himself. It might also be good to see how many of the kids at the respective schools keep their merit awards & how many lose them, based on grades and other criteria. That might be good to keep in mind as well, as the schools should have that info and be willing to share it in making your decision.</p>

<p>Our S thought about double-majoring or majoring & minoring but was advised by the engineering department to just get his degree & take some courses he liked. With our encouragement, he did so.</p>

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<p>Congratulations to your daughter! It sounds like you really can’t go wrong.
However, you should know that at the Ivys, there are lots of “travel grants” available that are need-based. Her travel experience does not have to be limited to study abroad if she chooses an Ivy.</p>

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<p>I think I hit a nerve by my position that a 3.5 is doable for the right kid. One issue really smart kids have is that academics tend to come easy for them and they can whip right through challenging high school programs. In a high school class, even AP or IB, students might have many, many grades to help them keep their A’s, or their might be bonus points given to help out. College is usually very different. Some of these really smart kids don’t do as well initially because they have to learn how to study, I mean really study, not think they have studied, but really study. My husband, an engineer with both a BS and a MS, was one of those kids. Skated through high school and then struggled the first three semesters in college. </p>

<p>He really had to learn to study because he started with Calculus I in college but his high school only offered math up to Alegebra II, which he took as a high school sophomore. So when he started college he hadn’t even had a math class the previous two years. He dropped high school chemistry when the girl’s track coach, who was teaching it, refused to allow him to do a chemistry research paper on fertilizer “because it had nothing to do with chemistry” and then allowed another student to do his paper on lasers. Basically, my husband went to college in as an engineer poorly prepared and not having a clue as to how to study.</p>

<p>By his second semester sophomore year of college he figured out what studying was about and the A’s started happening. Had he known this when he first started and had he had better preparation from high school, he probably would have been able to maintain a 3.5 annually.</p>

<p>I teach a college prep high school class and I have a number of students who go to college and major in the STEM’s who maintain high grades throughout college and I have many who don’t start getting the grades up until they figure things out late sophomore or junior year. </p>

<p>As I said before, it is doable, but not for everyone. My daughter has met a small number of upperclassmen in the sciences at her school who have well over a 3.5 GPA as juniors and seniors. I don’t think she has met anyone still with a 4.0 by third year, but a small number of 3.8 and 3.9 students. My daughter’s boyfriend’s older brother is a mechanical engineering major, a junior, who will graduate in four years. He has kept over a 3.5 GPA and has even had a few 4.0 semesters.</p>

<p>Ask if the school has a strong support network for academic assistance. If your daughter accepts this scholarship make sure she has opportunities to get tutoring help, if necessary. I think most colleges have avenues for this, some better than others.</p>

<p>I also want to concur with the poster who mentioned not taking AP credits for college science and math classes. I always recommend students to think carefully before substituting AP or IB credit for the actual college class for science and math courses. Some of what is covered in a college math or science class isn’t always covered in a challenging AP or IB class.</p>

<p>Last, the college that the child attends can be very important. If she is going to a large state school with huge classes, it might be harder to keep a 3.5 GPA. If she attends a private school with very small class numbers, it will probably be easier to keep higher grades.</p>

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<p>Proud_mom, your points are well-taken by me, as are HImom’s. The 3.5 certainly represents a risk if she decides to go that route. D is 2nd child going to college so we’re in a better position to predict her reaction to the harder work and adjustments of college. Two years ago, I thought my S was very prepared and prime for independence. He’d traveled quite a bit, but turns out backpacking doesn’t teach dorm living skills all that well :). He’s still transitioning and it’s been rough. Looking back though, much of the support and motivation we provided in high school should have been unnecessary and prolonged learning about issues he has. </p>

<p>D is much different. Very intrinsically motivated and willing to ask for help - she’s at a Saturday morning help session for Calc BC now and goes pretty regularly. (S never got up for it.) She’s also not a procrastinator. S thinks very deeply and languishes over assignments so that his first draft is his last, usually pushing deadlines. D thinks quickly and isn’t afraid of asking teachers for early critique. We often thought her work was done hurriedly but accepted because it was good enough. Lately we’ve learned that her work is done very efficiently and extremely well. Son has always seemed profoundly brilliant because of his deep thinking, so we’re really surprised to discover that she’s maybe the more astute of the two.</p>

<p>But the risk is there for any student going into the unknown. We’ve heard the advice about Math & Science AP credit and will certainly advise her to heed it. I do know she’d like to avoid more Math and jump ahead in Science. When comparing options in a few weeks we’re going to have medical school requirements mapped out, too.</p>

<p>The 3.5 school is playing hardball though. She’s been invited to an awards banquet and private luncheon honoring a favorite author/hero!</p>

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<p>getalifemom,</p>

<p>If I understand my son’s premed friends correctly, some of the science AP matter may be out of your daughter’s hands. According to son’s gf, and other friends, many medical schools do not want to see AP credits used to bypass standard college science courses. As a result, son’s girlfriend was unable to use her science AP credits at her university. </p>

<p>On the other hand, my son, a cs and math major in the engineering college at the same university, did not have such restrictions, and was happy to use all he could get. He did not repeat any math (he had several post-BC math courses at a uni while in hs), took the credit for physics and chem, and used the humanities and social science credits to give him room for advanced courses in his majors. While I concur with all that a 3.5 gpa requirement can be a trap, a previous poster is correct that premed students are shooting for higher gpa than that anyway. As for using the AP credits, that depends on the student, the major, the program and the university. </p>

<p>I’m sure you plan to do so, but just a reminder to find out whether the gpa requirement is for every semester, or cumulative gpa; the difference can be significant. For anyone reading this thread whose kids have not yet looked into merit-awarding universities, you should know that not all merit scholarships have such onerous requirements. When my son started, the requirement was “maintaining a B average” (3.0); now it is “adequate progress”. The University of Chicago requires only “adequate progress”. The devil is in the details on these offers.</p>

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<p>^you’re right. S has one scholarship with a 2.0 requirement. Jeez, regardless the scholarship, I would pull him if his GPA dropped below that.</p>

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<p>Also - a problem with a cumulative 3.5 gpa is that the first two semesters are the ones that students are most likely to struggle with - and there’s not a cushion of grades to balance. Also, check and see if the university offers + and - grades… that can also make a difference in maintaining a 3.5. I’m very opposed to the 3.5 mark - no way would I let my kid take that one, unless I knew I could afford the school without the scholarship and it was the best place for him/her.</p>

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<p>Again, congratulations to your daughter. You may have three very good offers, but beware of awarding to the “low bidder” based on price alone. You need to also examine…QUALITY OF EDUCATION! This would be the most important factor in my book, given that all of the financial offers will be good enough to make it work somehow.
A good quality honors program at a state university will have the following:

  1. Front-loading. That means honors courses are available immediately, from the very first semester of freshman year.
  2. An honors living-learning community. This means not only honors housing and dining but also honors activities and service projects that integrate the curricular aspects of the college with college life
  3. Excellent advising (and if they are excellent, they will tell your daughter NOT to accept the AP credit but to go ahead and take the introductory honors classes, with certain exceptions; they will also not allow your daughter to overload her freshman year - even brilliant students get into trouble with this)
  4. Relationships with professors and administrators
  5. Requirement for an honors thesis with an advisor and development of a special one on one relationship with that advisor
  6. True peers that can stimulate your daughter’s intellectual curiosity
  7. Opportunities for enrichment outside the classroom
  8. Opportunities for leadership in the larger university community</p>

<p>Go, observe, listen to the conversations at all of these colleges and please choose the one where your daughter will thrive educationally!
4)</p>

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<p>Thank you all. I’ll post when we are sure about options.</p>

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<p>Are we discussing the Foundation Fellows program at UGA?</p>

<p>My D was offered it and is seriously considering it. We won’t receive any need based money from any schools so it is a fantastic option for her. All her college fund will be sitting waiting for her in 4 years for law school… and then there is all the travel. Wow! I want to be her.</p>

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<p>One more thing to inquire about is if there is any probationary grace period. At the U my S attended with the minimum of 3.0 GPA to keep his merit award, they had up to a one year grace period for kids whose grades would have otherwise caused them to lose their merit awards. I thought that was very good of the U to give the kids a bit more breathing room and show that they understood that it could takes the students a bit of time to transition to college. This avoided those kids who were already having trouble academically having to hold their breath & appeal to keep their merit awards if they had a poor grades for a semester or so. Most of the kids we know kept their scholarships the full 4 years and did not need the probationary period but we were all happy it was there, “just in case.” </p>

<p>The other Us who also offered S merit aid had NO probationary period for grades and had a history of kids losing their merit awards due to poor grades. One had a minimum 3.25 (reduced from 3.5) and the other had a 3.0 requirement. They told us that if S missed 2 weeks of school in a term, even if due to his documented chronic health condition, they’d ask him to permanently withdraw & forfeit his scholarship, dorm, and all payments! We felt this was very punitive and did not show any willingness to work with us, so we crossed that U off our list. None of the other schools voiced that position–all of the other schools said they would work with S & us to help him succeed at their Us.</p>

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<p>The risk of 3.5GPA requirement depends a great deal on the student AND the college. At some colleges (or specific majors) it is much harder to earn an A. Harvey Mudd comes to min, but I suspect that there are other schools with lower-than-typical GPAs despite a stellar student body.</p>

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<p>alh - I’m trying to PM you and cannot. Is your box full?</p>

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<p>Keep in mind that there are Merit awards available for “Returning” students, meanning that they can start only in Sophomore year. Some of them are very substantial and in addition colleges tend to pile them up if one qualifies. Well, at D’s school requirement for those is college GPA=3.8. They are very worthwhile to strive for. Also since many kids do NOT apply to them, thinking that they do not have a chance, those who do and qualify, end up with lots of ADDITIONAL money in Merit Scholarships. The application has a deadline, which D. has missed one year. Maybe not all colleges have these type of Merit awards, but I strongly recommend to check into this, including college GPA requirements and deadlines.</p>

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<p>Recap - she has a much bigger decision than we imagined:</p>

<h1>1 - Pro: flagship honors program scholarship includes all but books and misc expenses. Also includes world travel, month-long study at Oxford, stipend to attend conferences, scholar group programming, participation in VIP campus visitor events, etc. Emphasis on immediate research and garnering national scholarships. Scholars refunded all outside scholarships so would bank money for med school. Excellent grad and medical school placement and scholar network. Superb college town. Con: 3.5 GPA w/grace, home state environment, least prestigious.</h1>

<h1>2 - T20 scholarship - has not been officially notified but shows on her FA page. School absorbs outside scholarships. Lacked current scholar and alumni scholar network. Don’t think this option is even in the running.</h1>

<h1>3a - Harvard - has specific major (concentration) in which D is interested: medical anthropology, have not received FA award, but should be similar to Yale’s. D has never visited. Other school visits were in summer and D discovered at T20 school that first impressions can be very wrong - her weekend inside visit was much more telling. Trying to attend student days but already missing an uncomfortable amount of school for EC and scholarship travel.</h1>

<h1>3b - Yale - tremendous FA award - cost similar to flagship full scholarship, at least for first two years until brother graduates. Hopefully deferrable scholarships may balance 3rd & 4th years if FA is cooperative - this applies to all #3 options. Student days conflict with 10-20K scholarship weekend.</h1>

<h1>3c - Brown PLME - 8 year undergrad/medical school combo. Would cost 10K more than Yale unless could negotiate FA award. Still need to research benefits of PLME during undergrad years and hopes to attend student days, but again, worried about missing school. Governor’s school BFF most likely attending.</h1>

<h1>3d - Dartmouth - S’s school. President’s background is Global Health and school has new grad program that intrigues D. FA similar to Brown’s. Knows and likes school well from spending 10 days there last summer, but has decided town is unfavorably small and rural.</h1>

<h1>3e - not really an option - waitlisted at Princeton, an early favorite.</h1>

<p>We have low income but decent savings and assets especially if/when real estate market rebounds. No debt whatsoever. Our retirement, though, is underfunded because of terrible stock market decisions. D hopes to keep medical school debt to a minimum as to not influence her plans to work with a WHO-type organization.</p>

<p>D is overwhelmed, confused, and a little forlorn over Princeton. (She’s not a brat, more just perplexed. Wishes there was a clearinghouse to trade H and Y for P.) It’s spring break and she’s bearing down on schoolwork to get ahead before leaving for 10 days of travel and missed school. Her acceptances are a big deal for her school, a large, non-competitive public, but she’s got at least one teacher, Physics, who won’t let up on assignments one bit. Calc is pretty rigid, too. The school made a deal that if she’d take all six, they’d pay for her AP tests, anticipating excellent scores. She doesn’t want to let them down. </p>

<p>Okay - what do you think?</p>

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<p>Wow - that’s just spectacular! Congratulations to her!</p>

<p>She’ll want to wait until she gets the Harvard aid offer to see how Harvard and Yale stack up. Our D had a Harvard-Yale choice three years ago, and H turned out to be $20,000 a year cheaper than Y. We had put college funds in her name however and H is much more generous when it comes to student assets, so that may explain a lot of the differential.</p>

<p>It’d be a good idea to visit Harvard - the campus is fairly urban and someone who swooned over Princeton may find it too urban. We’re from small town Georgia and our Ds both wanted a more urban college experience. They’ve loved H and have really enjoyed being 11 minutes from downtown Boston on the subway. The Foundation Fellows is a world-class program though actually, funds for world travel, stipends, scholar group programs, and participation in VIP campus visitor events is sort of normal everyday life at H. That aspect of campus life is remarkable, and the peer group is really quite incredible.</p>

<p>The PLME obviously sounds appealing, but something tells me that med school admission is not going to be an issue for your D. :)</p>

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<p>Having a lot of great choices can be overwhelming, but it is a really neat thing. When you get stressed over the next few weeks (and you will), try to breathe deeply and remember that. Best of luck!</p>