<p>I was recently accepted into the new Millennium Scholars program at Penn State which is just starting this year. A single class of about thirty incoming freshmen will spend 6 weeks at a difficult summer program, and then spend much time in the research facilities throughout our four year stay. The reward: Full tuition and room & board covered for all four years - as long as we keep a 3.5 GPA and remain in a major within Eberly or the College of Engineering.</p>
<p>Of course, everyone around me is telling me what I already know - graduating college with zero debt is the opportunity of a lifetime. However, I cannot decide between this offer and attending the University of Virginia. I would graduate from UVA with about $36,000 due in loans, and have to partake in a work study program while enrolled. However, I would not stress myself trying to maintain a 3.5, and would have a pretty darn reputable degree.</p>
<p>Weighing each option, I’ve narrowed it down to one overall question, which I’m hoping someone on this site can answer: How difficult is it to maintain a 3.5 GPA in Penn State’s Chemical Engineering program?</p>
<p>I can’t answer that question but would like to add that being in the program would be a big leg-up if you intend to eventually apply to grad school. Are you also accepted into the SHC?</p>
<p>the summer program is not difficult. It is meant to help some students in the program who might need it adjust to college life and build a community spirit among the scholars. You would take Gen Chem, which you would for your major anyway and some type of math (probably not as difficult as you would for ChemE in the fall semester). The research “course” is mostly informational.
There are some downsides to the program, but being harder is not one on them. </p>
<p>Probably no more difficult than the same at UVa</p>
<p>1moremom: Surprisingly enough, I actually wasnt accepted into SHC. However, we had a presentation with more information about the program right before our interviews, and the program founder made a comment about them finding a way into SHC for any scholarship recipient who was not accepted. Not to sound cocky, but she legitimately claimed the admissions for SHC makes mistakes, and that the scholars are the top 0.5% of incoming freshmen who were accepted to either Eberly or the College of Engineeing. Also, thankyou for your point, that’s very true, I can see being in the program meaning having an advantage.</p>
<p>Luv: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you are talking about the Summer LEAP program which is offered to all students. At that same presentation which I mentioned above, she claimed the program is literally more of a “military lifestyle, so expect to work hard.” We were told we would wake up around 8 or 9 and attend morning classes until noon, then we would eat lunch followed by afternoon classes until around 5 or 6. Lastly, we would attend classes after dinner until about 9pm. This schedule is for 5 days a week, followed by mandatory community service on Saturday. Sundays we would have off. However, I’m certainly fine with giving up my final summer for a full ride. The problem lies in wanting to have a social life but still being able to keep a 3.5 GPA through difficult Thermodynamics and Equilibria classes in my future years of ChemE.</p>
<p>I was at the “interview”/recruitment session too.<br>
yes, this program is a mini-version of LEAP. It is supposed to have the same function- acclimation and community building. Two real courses were supposed to be taken. Gen Chem and “a math” (not specified). Making the top students take gen chem over the summer (and not an honors section) when most AP out of gen chem, doesn’t make sense to me.
I would NOT be put off by Assoc Dean Williams description (military boot camp). I get the strong impression she over did that for the sake of making it seem rigorous and applicants special.
The scholars are the best of who claimed to be committed to pursue a PhD. It eliminates those who want to keep the med school option open- and these are outstanding students.
Visit the information about the meyerhof program at UMBC to get an idea of what they are trying to duplicate.</p>
<p>Millennium Scholars will be housed in the honors dorms. Rooming with another scholar (one of the downsides IMO- part of college is meeting new people of different interests).</p>
<p>Hey, this is a great program. It’s just not for all and while it’s true the students selected are great, they may not appear to fit the SHC for one reason or another. Remember, here you are competing with science and eng students who want to go to grad school. Selection in SHC is a university-wide competition. </p>
<p>PS. the scholarship is 15K (about instate tuition). The summer session is all no-cost. Unless they awarded you another scholarship, it is not a full ride.</p>
<p>The likelihood of you having a “social life” ( and not knowing you, I don’t know what that means to you ---- sleeping in? partying every weekend? skipping class to go shopping?) when you are a thermo engineering major is pretty slim anyway. Do you really want to turn down networking, mentoring, preferential treatment, career engagement, enrichment, teambuilding AND a scholarship worth more than 80K ? For…hanging out?</p>
<p>Luv:
Oh, we’re you chosen as the initial top 70, as well? Those interviews were nerve-wrecking to me!</p>
<p>Anyways, I emailed the Dean Williams and she informed that that there were about 6 different courses, actually, but yes, one math and then multiple engineering and introduction courses. Thanks for the advice to check out the UMBC program, I should have thought of that.</p>
<p>Also, I believe the scholars are only housed in the dorms ove the summer period. Once the school year begins, I believe we can room in the freshmen dorms.</p>
<p>Lastly, I actually did receive full tuition and room and board - valued at about $26,000. I would show you, but I’m new to this site so I’m not sure if you can post a picture.</p>
<p>Greenbutton: This is the reply I’m used to haha. I definitely understand the value of this opportunity, however, if I attend UVA, I’ll still receive a stellar education - but with half the stress. Obviously, all of my life I’ve been a hardworking student, college was finally my chance to relax a bit (I’m not saying fail and skip classes, but yes, I’m an eighteen year old high school male, I want to live a little). I’m just asking the opinion of difficulty of a chemical engineering major. I’m not expecting a cakewalk, but my 4 AP classes this year haven’t been one, either. Like I said, I am just hoping for less stress.</p>
<p>My child interviewed. Odd situation b/c he didn’t apply (wants to go to med school). He told his interviewers he can’t commit to a PhD program.</p>
<p>I think you are wrong about the housing, but I could be too.
Dean williams indicated that scholars will be assigned to honors housing during the year. You will be assigned different housing in the summer (you need to move) because the honors dorms are unavailable in the summer. She expressed an interest in trying to get the honors housing “opened up” for the summer, but that might be hard.</p>
<p>Summer classes: There should only be two “serious” classes- Gen Chem and “a math”- courses that would require much preparation. The others are more informational classes like introduction to research. Not heavy classes at all. </p>
<p>Do not display personal information on this site even if you figure out how to do so.</p>
<p>You expressed an interest in the SHC. Both require a research thesis be written. This is really the time consuming exercise, but the thing that develops you the most. SHC requires a minimum number of honors classes. Millennium Scholars may be able to take honors classes if they want to, but not required to do so. Also, Millennium Scholars have guaranteed 5,000 financial support to continue their research over the summer so less time can be dedicated to it during the school year. Most SHC students don’t stay the summers and must complete the research during the year. So, there should be less stress as a Millennium Scholar.</p>
<p>If you have any questions contact ECoS. If I were you, I’d accept especially since you were not admitted into SHC. Millennium program has some of the perks as the SHC, but not all.</p>
<p>Thank you, I didn’t realize the research part. I knew about the offer to stay and research over the summer, but that’s a good point that it should be less stressful because it’s a greater timespan to perform the research.</p>
<p>And trust me, I’ve been criticized for that mentality, but it’s a personal thing as there are many more factors concerning my situation. Perhaps that’s even why I was offered a full ride when the program was originally going to offer $15,000. In my opinion, I deserve time to relax and be on my own. Thanks again though, sincerely!</p>
<p>Can you afford Penn State if you loose the full ride ? Penn State is the better option right now because of the full ride but if you loose it, it won’t be anymore. The answer depends on how confident you are about maintaining a 3.5 GPA. Visit the school and ask someone about it ?</p>
<p>Yeah that’s exactly it, I’m not too confident of keeping it around junior or senior year, so I’m hoping some ChemE major can help me out here and let me know why kind of grades they got.</p>
<p>Even if you get advice from someone here, how will you know how accurate it is or if it applies to you? A fabulous student will say 3.5 is a breeze. A less serious student will say they can hardly keep a 3.0. If you insist on this exercise, a better thing to do is contact Chem_e and ask the average GPA and the percentage that achieve a 3.5.
However, once you get this information from Chem-E, you have to remember that you were chosen for this program and granted admission to UVa. You must have a strong academic background, one above the average PSU student. You have the background to keep a 3.5, it should come down to how much effort you put in.</p>
<p>I think you are too focused on the negative. Its good you are thinking about it though. I suggest you spend equal time thinking about the positives of staying in the program at PSU. I think if you even did the math on the costs of attending, you would be better off even if you had to leave the program mid-way through your junior year. You also have to remember (check with Megan about this), that if you miss the 3.5 you probably will not be dismissed immediately. For example, if SHC students miss their minimum GPA, they get put on probation/watch for one semester. How much would it cost to attend PSU without this scholarship? UVa isnt particularly generous with aid either. You would get some loan and work support from PSU too. So, getting back to your doomsday scenario. If you fail to meet the 3.5 in the first semester of your junior year, you get on probation until the end of your junior year. If you dont raise the GPA, you lose the scholarship only for your senior year. What would the costs at PSU be now compared to UVa? Can you count on UVas support to be the same years 2-4? MS is 4 years if you maintain the GPA.</p>
<p>One more thing. You made reference to a certain personal problem/complications that have you concerned (dont share here!)
Did you read this from the MS page?
Penn State Millennium Scholars are provided with an academic adviser to aid them with their academic planning and performance. The programs director will also regularly meet with students to discuss their academic progress or any personal problems that may occur.</p>
<p>Would you have such support at UVa if you needed it?</p>
<p>Please PM me. I have some more info/opinions to share with you.</p>
<p>OP, I applaud you for not jumping at the full-ride opportunity without serious considerations, but maybe you shouldn’t approach it from the social life angle. After all, there is no guarantee that you will maintain the 3.5 GPA even without any social life. On the other hand, a balanced social life may be quite important for a successful academic career. Part of the reason to go to college is to explore, grow and mature. It’s not just about engineering. You are not going to a trade school. Yes, this is from a parent with lots of bills to pay :)</p>
<p>A $36K debt with a UVA engineering degree is manageable enough that you should concentrate on which environment you will do best in, and the two environments are indeed quite different. It’s not like you are comparing Penn State’s ChemE to that of another B1G school like Illinois or Purdue, in which case you should obviously go for the money.</p>
<p>Do another visit. Talk to as many students and professors as you can. Study the curriculum and student outcome in depth. Many UVA engineers go into non-traditional careers like business or law. Does that interest you or just the opposite?</p>
<p>Thanks guys, those last two posts were exactly what I need. That’s more of the insight I was looking for when I posted this. Much appreciated! Now I have some more research to do, and a new way to approach this.</p>
<p>I tried to PM you, but unfortunately the site says I must have atleast 15 posts to use that feature!</p>
<p>In regards to your post, I was hoping to find the average GPA for a ChemE graduate, but couldn’t. I will have to try contacting the university.</p>
<p>Concerning my financial aid, if there was no scholarship, UVA would be a cheaper option for me. I received a large grant from the university, and 9,000 per year in loans for an out-of-state student is very cheap. But looking at your point, I’m very certain I will be able to maintain the scholarship for the first two years, atleast, so the remaining costs of PSU would be cheaper than the overall cost of UVA. Plus, like you said, unlike the scholarship, the grant isn’t guaranteed for 4 years, and if the aid would decrease for UVA, I would probably end up transferring, anyways.</p>
<p>Don’t kid yourself, getting a 3.5 is hard regardless, and if you want to relax a bit just realize that getting into a competitive PhD program ( Ivy League or top 20) will be difficult without a high GPA, no matter what school you attend ( most programs really do not care one thing about the undergraduate program you were in, you must be top of your class and have done research at the indergrad level, seems like the PSU programoffers to ensure that is done for you and is for free, if you slack at UVA or don’t do research work you will have trouble getting into a top PhD program regardless and sometimes it is difficult to do any undergrad research at all since many students compete for spots, if its not guaranteed for you at UVA you may not get a spot at all ( especially if your grades are nto competitive. Additionally, at large research schools like UVA and PSU, many times students cannot even get close to a research spot until at least 3rd year, if PS helps you so that as a Freshman you are way ahead of the game</p>