D26 is finishing up AP Calc AB this year and is considering courses for next year. She wants to take a calc-based dual enrollment physics course in the fall. Then in the spring, she was thinking about maybe continuing her calc journey with calc 2 (also DE). She’s wondering if she might be better off just taking the full physics sequence instead so mechanics in the fall and then E&M in the spring. Is one option preferable over the other considering both college admissions and utility in college? I would have guessed calc 2 is more useful in college itself since I’d expect her to have to retake physics at many of the selective schools.
Also, the only available math class at her school that’s left is AP Stats. She has 4 years of math since she took an accelerated pre-calc class last summer through her school (so it’s on the transcript with the same number of credits as a full-year course). She was planning to NOT take AP Stats since she’d rather take the calc-based version of that in college. This would mean either no math at all senior year or calc 2 in the spring semester.
If your child is planning on a STEM major, especially if it’s engineering, I’d recommend a full year of DE math - one semester of Calc 2 and one semester of Calc 3 so there is no gap between classes.
Physics mechanics is going to be more useful than E&M. I’m assuming it’s not being offered in her school?
Currently thinking about physics/astrophysics/astronomy. She’s not particularly interested in engineering. And it wouldn’t surprise me to see her ending up in philosophy or history, so it could really be anything!
I like this idea, but then she’s at just 3 years of lab science. She’s at 4 years of math right now with AP Calc AB.
And correct, no physics beyond the honors physics class she took freshman year.
Only thing left is AP Bio which she very much does NOT want to take.
ETA: she took AP Calc this year specifically so that she could take DE physics.
sorry, one more edit:
One issue that may come up is that technically her school only allows dual enrollment at the local university for 100-level classes. Calc 3 is a 200-level course there. It’s possible she could convince her school, but it’s yet another thing she’d have to convince them of.
At many colleges, physics 1 for physics majors requires at least concurrent enrollment in calculus 2, and physics 2 requires concurrent enrollment in calculus 3.
If this is true at the DE college, then it may be better to take both math and physics there together.
If taking only one DE course at a time is possible, then taking calculus 2 in the fall and either calculus 3 or physics 1 in the spring is a better ideas than physics 1 in the fall.
I confirmed on their website that the DE college notes that if she gets a 4 or 5 on the AP exam, then she’ll be eligible to take physics 1. But, of course, she won’t know that until June, so we’ll have to check how registration will work.
Unfortunately, they only offer physics 1 in the fall and physics 2 in the spring. Calc 2 and 3 seemed to be offered in both semesters.
So I think the “best” solution would be to take all of Calc 2, Calc 3, Mechanics, and E&M. “Best” here just means what would maximize preparedness, look completely unproblematic to any possible college of interest, and so on.
If that is not possible, the next-“best” (same definition) would probably be to do Calc 2/3 and AP Bio.
As I understand it, the basic issue here is neither of those may be possible, and even if possible, she really does not want to do the second.
So if for some reason or reasons the choice is really just between E&M and Calc 2 after Mechanics–I’d choose Calc 2. I think it is a good idea generally to have done Calc 2 before E&M, and if she would have to retake E&M anyway, even more so. Not that retaking is always bad, but Calc 2 in that sense is more “bankable” (meaning I would assume colleges would usually be fine with her doing Calc 3 next).
Yeah, I think unless she can miraculously take two DEs at once, I think this is what it’ll probably be. Option 2 is basically a non-starter since the whole reason she took calc was so that she could take more physics.
Anyway, I guess we’ll see what happens when she speaks to her counselor. Thanks all for the input!
At many colleges, calculus 3 at least concurrently (which implies completion of calculus 2) is specified for those taking the physics course (for physics majors) with E&M, since some of the E&M concepts actually do use multivariable calculus.
S23 is an astrophysics major at UCSC.
The course sequence is as follows:
Calc 2 (19A) is a pre-requisite and Calc 3 (19B) is a co-requisite for either Phys 1 (Mechanics 6A) or Phys 2 (E&M 6B)
But Phys 2 doesn’t require Phys 1.
That means not having Calc 2 sets you back at least a quarter in starting the major. And Astrophysics has a very long course sequence, more even than in a regular physics BS, so this would be unwise.
Our high school allowed you to do AP Phys C Mechanics alongside Calc BC. But I definitely wouldn’t do Mechanics first without it.
So you should take Calc 2 in the first semester. In the second semester you could do Phys or Calc 3, but most people think E&M is conceptually harder than Mechanics so that would probably push me towards Calc 3 if Mechanics isn’t available.
Seems like you already have good advice. Calc 2 is the most important. Calc 3 would be nice and DE Physics 1 is less necessary (having already done Honors Physics), but if D26 wants to take it, that should count for something.
FWIW, while it’s true that she may re-do intro physics in college anyway, there are cases where having already taken it does give a head start even at selective colleges. At my S23’s college, his 5’s on Physics C ME & EM allowed him to start on an accelerated program that required one less course in the major pre-reqs than others and made it possible to be taking more advanced classes sophomore year. That said, the Accel Physics program would have been torturous without Calc 3 experience. His college has 4 different starting course levels in Physics depending on prior experience.
Yeah, I am in fact seeing with my S24 the advantages of “retaking” courses he sorta took in HS, at least when the version he is taking in college is from a more advanced/in-depth track.
So I am not inherently against taking a less Calc-intense version of E&M in HS, and then retaking it in college in a more advanced/in-depth form. In this case, though, I think there is even more value in taking Calc 2 in HS, then retaking an advanced form of Mechanics with Calc 2 already done (and maybe getting in Calc 3 her first term of college before E&M the second term).
Indeed, even when they will let you do Calc 2 and Calc 3 concurrently, if you can stay ahead I think that is likely even better.
At S23’s school every student doing physics is retaking the survey courses in some format, it just varies how quickly they are pushing through the material. The top sequence covers 3 classes of material in 2 semesters. It is a tough workload of p-sets (for which they get extra units). The reason some students do it is the competition to get research roles. If they don’t do the accelerated sequence freshman year, they can’t get through both semesters of 4000-level (combined undergrad/grad level) Quantum courses sophomore year which makes them less competitive for the limited opportunities. S23 is doing 2 x 4000-level physics, 2 x 3000 -level physics and 4 x 4000-level math classes sophomore year (on top of distribution requirements) to be competitive for those roles. He’ll start junior year 3 semester courses away from a math major in pursuit of staying competitive in the physics track.
(When I went to college I felt less pressure than I had in HS. Definitely not the case now, at least at some colleges and in some fields. It’s even worse for the pre-meds.)
Yeah, my S24 is a probable Bio major, less likely but possible pre-med, at WashU, and all that is super intense. They are now basically encouraging pre-meds to take at least one stretch year, but if you try to do it in four years, it is a packed schedule. And everyone is very grade conscious from the start, competition for research positions is looming, and so on.
So any sort of advantage you can get in terms of preparation for the core early classes seems well worth it.
