Furman vs College of Charleston Honors College (and boyfriend)

Parents Forum
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My daughter was convinced she would attend Furman for over a year. She was also accepted to College of Charleston Honors College.

Complicating factor: she initially had no interest in COC and was eager to commit to Furman just 2 weeks ago when she thought her boyfriend (5 months) was going to follow her. Her interest shifted quickly once it became clear he was going to attend COC. Cost isn’t the issue for us; we’re focused on fit, growth, and long-term trajectory. I do not have anything against COC - only HOW we got to this sudden change of heart. She was accepted to the honors college and became intrigued by the Commercial Real Estate Finance degree during her tour last week.

She’s 17, wonderful, bright, and thoughtful — but like many teens, very convinced this relationship is “forever.” As parents, we’re trying to balance respecting her feelings with helping her make a decision based on her long-term growth, independence, and trajectory. She’s been pre-law focused for years so we’re trying to compare academics, rigor, and outcomes — especially for law school. Furthermore, growing up in the lowcountry, and never really embracing the lifestyle, I thought that 4 years in a different region would be a healthy experience for her.

Would love input from parents/students who can speak to:

  • Furman vs CofC Honors academically

  • Law school placement/pre-law support

  • Honors housing/community at CofC vs Furman housing/campus social life

  • Navigating college choices when a significant other is involved. This is tough.

Thank you — really appreciate any perspective.

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No mystery. She got a change of heart. Literally.

Money isn’t your issue here, so let her go and she can learn from her mistakes, or not.

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Great time to put her passion to work. Let her make a slide show comparing and contrasting the two schools/programs and help you understand her choice.

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My daughter was in C of C Honors - but also was a Charleston Fellow, which is a sub group. It was a wonderful experience. Academics are solid.

Furman is no doubt a wonderful school, but different. Charleston is smack dab in the middle of things - and will have more geographic diversity. The school is small - but literally integrated into downtown.

Both are relatively easy ins.

As for who is better for law school - I wouldn’t choose any college for law school outcomes. Her GPA, her LSAT, her activities will be what gets her in.

Harvard is represented by 163 schools in its under 600 first year class. Whether an Iowa State or North Dakota State or a regional like Christopher Newport, they’re there. 84%, by the way, were a year out. Today, that’s common at law schools - working first.

Penn has over 200 schools represented in its law school, which is about 1000.

Furman is in Harvard’s first year class but not at Penn. C of C is at Penn’s law school, but not Furman.

The schools are very different - Charleston is bigger, downtown, etc. and Furman is green, ritzy, etc. and not amidst the action.

It doesn’t look like they have a real estate finance track at Furman, but you can ask.

But let’s be honest:

  1. She’s chasing a boy - and who knows. My daughter went to C o C and her BF to U Denver - and here they are in Denver, four years later so it worked out. On the other hand, they could break up.
  2. Law school - irrelevant - a) if she even goes and b) if she does, there’s no school that won’t work

As a general rule, Charleston will be more “liberal” than Furman….it’s bigger, more geographically diverse, and Furman’s history is religious. And I’d imagine Furman has better career outcomes but that’s in part because Charleston kids seem to want to stay, and will work service jobs - just to not leave the city. There’s a lot of that. But my daughter did fine - she interned for our state in the summer, did the U of SC Honors Washington Semester and had 7 offers for internships - worked for a prominent think tank. And now is part of a hard to get into public service program, where her teammates come from prominent (and not so prominent) schools.

Furman will bring family friction. Charleston won’t. On the flipside, if they break up and are still there on campus together, it will cause friction - so that’s never easy.

I’m sure they’ll be fine elsewhere but at least on paper, looking at academics, they’ll be better off at Charleston, if real estate is the desire. She might even find interest in an Urban Studies double, as there’s a sustainable urbanism track that may incorporate real estate and housing type issues.

But she might talk to Furman’s finance department too.

Bottom line - I know you think she’s choosing C of C for a guy - and I’m sure it’s true. But I’m guessing academically, it’s likely a better fit for her interests as well.

Best of luck.

As they note about the major (if it’s truly her interest), “As one of the only finance-driven commercial real estate programs in the country”

Program: Commercial Real Estate Finance, B.S. - College of Charleston

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Thank you for your taking the time to compose this very informative response. You have laid everything out very objectively and educated me on many points. Let’s face it, COC makes sense on a lot of levels. It just grates my nerves WHY she suddenly wants to go there - I am being just as emotional as she is. You have been most helpful!!

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You said she changed her mind after the tour. Could it be that she really does want to do the Commercial Real Estate Finance program and they really sold her on it? I think that could be likely. I’ve always said you should pick the specific program that is a fit for you rather than just looking at the school. This could actually be a good thing, even if the relationship does or doesn’t last.

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The part that jumps out at me is that they originally planned to go to the same college, but then the guy changed his mind and chose a school he preferred over staying with her. For her to then change her mind and follow him feels like an imbalance that might not bode well, relationship-wise.

OTOH, none of that makes CofC the wrong school for her. Lots of people have, in retrospect, made what turned out to be a good decision for a dubious reason.

As others have said, she just needs to make the case that this would be the right school for her even if the relationship didn’t work out. Fortunately, she has months remaining before a final decision has to be made. I would encourage her to take her time deciding, and really dig into the pros and cons.

But the whole “He was willing to walk away from our joint plan, so I’ll change my plan to follow him” aspect does deserve some clear-eyed examination, regardless of what decision she makes.

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She was originally strongly opposed to COC. I had to make her apply but she refused to go tour. (She has EA offers to Clemson and USC and won’t go see them either - that’s how set she was on Furman) She came home one evening telling me how the boyfriend’s mom convinced her that COC would be a great school for her. I am trying very hard to remain neutral on the subject, I took her that same week for a tour. That’s when she discovered the program, and I must agree that it seems like a better investment than political science alone. I begrudgingly agree that it may be a blessing. The cost difference is significant and she’ll be closer to home - but I HATE the thought that she is compromising her ideal college experience to follow him. It helps to hear from others that this may be the best thing for her after all. I’m too deeply emerged in my emotions to see clearly. I love to hear more about the COC honors college program so I can get excited for her.

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Why don’t you also take her to Columbia and Clemson - so she can see their campuses.

Frankly, all four are different.

If she decides she doesn’t like finance, she can still transition to Poli Sci.

Honors will get smaller classes. I don’t know her stats but if she gets an invite for Fellows - it’s great because it’s a small cohort, lots of mentoring, a May away included, etc.

None of my daughter’s classes - regular or Honors were huge - and most profs were very good. She had a poli scie professor who is adjunct and unreal - he’s a long term government official and amazingly is blind. She said best professor ever. He was always traveling in between classes.

Maybe her ideal experience changed. I get it - it’s the other mom. But my son - he had 4 majors in Junior and Senior year of HS alone - astrophysics to professional pilot to atmospheric sciences to mechanical engineering.

Kids change. My son was stuck on Wash U St. Louis. Then we toured and he got into Purdue - and it was game over. Then, with zero interest in Alabama, he visited because in Senior year, you had to job shadow or visit a college and so he joined three buddies. Came home, applied and it was game over for Purdue.

Kids do change. It might be the bf. It might be that she truly loved C of C. It’s not the ideal college from a green campus and space POV. It’s old/historic, tiny, and integrated right into downtown.

Maybe she truly loved that and it just took that nudge.

You said budget wasn’t the issue - if it was, that’s then fair game if the cost is higher.

But if you’ve told her it’s ok, you’re only asking for trouble if you force her to where she doesn’t want to go. Daughters are tough :slight_smile:

I think most, if not all schools, you can ask to speak to a student ambassador - so she can compare notes.

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Reality check here…I have hired real estate finance professionals for YEARS. You do not need to major in it. Nope. We look for strong analytical skills and a thorough grounding in finance. Strong performance in a rigorous econ sequence….micro, macro, global, econometrics. An honors thesis on something relevant to real estate is a bonus….but that can be a study of raw material costs in an inflationary environment, or an analysis of labor costs when interest rates rise or whatever. Doesn’t need to be about brick and mortar.

Cornell’s hotel school. BU. University of Maryland. Villanova. UT Austin. BYU. Michigan. Binghamton. UVA. University of Wisconsin, Illinois….all fertile recruiting ground.

So ask your D to do her homework on which classes she thinks she needs at this particular school which she can’t find somewhere else. My guess is that this will be a short list.

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Furman says this is the job titles most common. Of course, these can be real estate related:

Top job titles for employees with a finance-track degree include financial analyst, personal financial adviser, accountant, loan officer, budget analyst, auditor and credit analyst.

Does the student really want real estate? Certainly OP can compare outcomes from both schools - finance at Furman (although it sounded like Poli Sci would be the major there) or Commercial Real Estate Finance at Charleston.

I think the boyfriend is mom’s concern - in that the student was primed for Furman….not the major - but one clearly has a real estate focus and one doesn’t - if that’s truly the interest. The other thing is - at Charleston especially, how large is the major (the cohort size) if it’s a niche major. Are all the classes required offered regularly?

The course work at the school - finance to commercial real estate finance - is very different so it is possible one would appeal vs. the other. The C of C curriculum within the major is much more interdisciplinary.

Here are the links but I also put below.

Business Administration, B.A. | Business & Accounting | Furman University You have to go to the finance track

Program: Commercial Real Estate Finance, B.S. - College of Charleston

Furman

Business Administration, Business Finance Track, B.A.

To fulfill the business finance track requirements, students must complete 9 required courses and 4 business finance track elective courses.

Required Core Courses and Capstone (7 courses):

Required Business Finance Track Courses (2 courses):

Business Finance Track Electives (4, 4-credit courses):

Primary Track Electives

Students must take at least 2 courses from the following list to count as business finance track electives. Students may take all 4 of the business finance track elective courses from this list:

Secondary Track Electives

Students may take up to 2, 4-credit courses from the following list to count as business finance track electives:

  • Any 4-credit ACC or BUS courses numbered 230 or higher that is not otherwise used to fulfill a major requirement

  • BUS-150 Perspectives on Business

  • MTH course numbered 145 or higher that is not otherwise used to fulfill a major requirement

Charleston

Commercial Real Estate Finance, B.S.

Major Requirements

Credit Hours: 60+

In addition to completing the requirements for this major, students must also complete the degree requirements specified in the Academic Regulations section of this catalog.

Courses within this major may also satisfy general education requirements. Please consult the Liberal Arts and Sciences General Education Requirements for more information.

Math Requirement

Note:

  • Honors students can take the alternative course of HONS 115 in lieu of MATH 120.

  • Honors students can take the alternative course of HONS 217 in lieu of MATH 250.

Core Business Courses (33 credit hours)

Note:

  • Honors students can take the alternative course of HONS 203 in lieu of ACCT 203.

  • Honors students can take the alternative course of HONS 204 in lieu of ACCT 204.

  • Honors students can take the alternative course of HONS 210 in lieu of BLAW 205.

  • Honors students can take the alternative course of HONS 214 in lieu of DSCI 232.

  • Honors students can take the alternative course of HONS 200 in lieu of ECON 200.

  • Honors students can take the alternative course of HONS 211 in lieu of ECON 201.

Real Estate Core Courses (15 credit hours)

Elective Courses (6 credit hours)

Complete at least 6 additional credit hours from any real estate (REAL) course at the 300-level and above or the following with no more than 3 credit hours from REAL 344 and REAL 420.

Note:

Honors students can take the alternative course of HONS 205 in lieu of ENTR 200.

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Attorney recruiter here. Law schools don’t care about the college. It’s all GPA and LSAT. Period. Just wanted you to know.

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Thank you!

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Male/female ratio is about 33%male/67% female at the College of Charleston.

Male/female breakdown is about 43% male/57% female at Furman University.

Should your daughter follow the guidance of the boyfriend’s (5 month relationship) mother ?

Interesting that there doesn’t seem to be any input from the boyfriend; he may want to enjoy the freedom to explore while maturing/growing during college.

It might be wise to visit her other options (Clemson & USC).

P.S. As for “pre-law advising”, be careful because the advisors typically have zero experience with law school admissions, law school degree, or practice as an attorney. The best pre-law advice is to prepare for the LSAT and take the LSAT or GRE until the student’s score is above the median for any desired law school.

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I know a lot of people want this to be true, but it isn’t:

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As this relates to the OP, I don’t think there will be any appreciable difference for success in applying to law school from Furman or CoC. However, if she were bailing on UPenn to follow a boy to Boise State, there is a verifiable impact.

It is really important that we don’t allow our personal preferences and biases to lead us to posting misleading information.

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Is she sure she would be happy at a small college? Many kids are, but mine thought she would be, but ultimately was not and transferred out.

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A 2:1 female:male ratio isn’t a good formula for the boyfriend remaining faithful. That’s a lot of girls competing for the relatively few boys on campus.

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Delete - topic for another thread and that poster and I will never agree. I noted above both these schools are represented at the top law schools.

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The girls there often date boys from the neighboring The Citadel.

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Furman has a better reputation historically, and is smaller so will probably get a better education than COC. COC turned into a big business by drastically increasing enrollment for about 30 years now (it is a business). If relationship is meant to be, it will be in my opinion. I would definitely go to Furman over COC.