<p>I have not posted much on CC. I was a little taken back when someone (it doesn’t matter who) suggested that my child may be seen as trying to “game the system” by taking a course twice, once at a local 4 year college and again at the university of my child’s choice this upcoming fall. The reason for doing such a thing was due to the poor high school teacher that my child had in this particular subject (the subject is irrelevant to the topic). The idea was to take the course for credit but never forward that credit to anyone or audit the course if the credit was eventually required to be forwarded to another institution. The advice that I got suggested that auditing would be the way to go because med-schools ask for all credits to be forwarded to them. Someone then suggested that med schools would see this as “gaming the system”. The person who posted this may very well be right. However, the bottom line is that my child is willing to do this in order to know the material better. A future patient may appreciate the effort one day. </p>
<p>After reading CC for many months now, it seems to me that practically everyone is “gaming the system”. High priced tutors for SAT/ACT, $25,000/prep high schools, expensive trips all over the world, $50,000/year private colleges, trying to find the elusive “hook” that I’ve read so much about, pricey summer research opportunities, full pay rather than scholarships, and on and on and on…lol</p>
<p>I do not have a problem with it…lol…i just find it amusing that someone sees my child’s plan any differently.</p>
<p>Whenever you take a course for credit, it is on your record forever. That means that for the rest of your natural life, whenever you apply for admission to a degree program at an accredited college or university in the US, you have to provide an official transcript for that course. What the college or university does with that information is up to them, but they do need to have that piece of paper in their files. I found this out the hard way when I was nearly dropped from a graduate program because a routine audit of my file found that I hadn’t sent an original transcript for a summer course taken at a different college because I thought that since it showed up on my regular undergraduate transcript would be good enough. We are talking about 6 semester hours that were more than 30 years old and were not relevant to the graduate program I was trying to stay in. The problem was resolved when I had the college where that class was taken send a transcript to the place I was pursuing the graduate program.</p>
<p>In your child’s case, taking the course as an audit if he/she were intending to take it for real later on would probably be the right move. It isn’t gaming the system. It is recognizing that parts of the system are just plain arbitrary, and working within the limits of the system.</p>
<p>Sometimes you get great advice from people, sometimes terrible. You never know people’s expertise or motivation, you just need to sort through it and take the good advice.</p>
<p>People may call certain actions “gaming the system”. I call it intelligent strategy. Figure out what you or your child need to do to achieve their goals, and optimize your actions to achieve it. If you don’t care enough to take the trouble to do so, then the goal is not important enough. Nothing is worth cheating or lying for, but strategy and preparation is commendable, and your child deserves credit for going the extra step.</p>
<p>You’re always going to find detractors, no matter what you do. Ignore them.</p>
<p>I’m confused here: your child is talking a class essentially 3 times, first in high school, then off-the-record in college and then officially in another college? If I understand this correctly, you aren’t “gaming the system,” you are simply delaying reality. If your child can’t learn this material in one pass, how exactly is that child going to get through the tougher advanced pre-med classes, to say nothing of med school? Some kids just can’t learn certain subjects quickly enough to major in certain fields, be it medicine or engineering; isn’t it better that they learn this early in the process and redirect their energy to a major that’s a better fit?</p>
<p>Yeah, by the time you’re taking a class three times, even if you’re auditing, it’s not so much “gaming” the system as really trying hard. If that is worth it to a kid, I say more power to him.</p>
<p>In the arts, it is widely known that it is not always the most talented who “make it” so much as the ones who work the hardest and never quit. To me, gaming the system implies a short cut, and this seems to be more of a “long way home” scenario.</p>
<p>I do not see anything as “gaming the sytem”, even if one sabotage others’ efforts by stealing their work (which has happened to my D. in college). Everybody is just putting the best effort and those who cheat will get pusnished at the end, no need to waste your time and nerves on them. As long as it is OK with Med. Schools, do not listen to anybody calling names. Your only concern is Med. School application and absolutely NOTHING else. Sorry, I cannot help you with that, although my D. has gone thru the process. She did not have similar experience and we never felt bad about spending money on whatever her heard desired, private HS, trips abroad (to have fun and learn, not to have edge over somebody else), Kaplan MCAT prep. course, sorority, prestigous honors societies fees or whatever. We did not feel bad about all of that, we felt that she deserved it because of her hard work. And you should not feel bad about stuff like this either, be proud and do not listen to others who do not wish you best. I do wish your child the brightest future that he deserved!</p>
<p>It’s only “gaming the system” if somebody else does it.</p>
<p>Seriously, I guess I’d define “gaming the system” as doing something that technically complies with the rules of whatever the system is, but which violates the spirit and intent of the rules. I don’t think auditing a class qualifies, any more than reading a book would.</p>
<p>My kids went to a poor quality high school, so it seems perfectly natural to take a college course at a local college in order to better prepare for the eventual matriculation at another college. It is a matter of learning.</p>
<p>I guess I must be missing something. Was the point of this maneuver a better grade at the final college destination? Is the implication that this was “gaming the system” tied to that?</p>
<p>Otherwise, I would see it as remedial after a poor teacher in high school.</p>
<p>I can see that the only important point here is how is it going to look on Med. Schools application. If the warning was in regard to that, then I would pay attention. You cannot change minds of Med. Schools adcoms. How everybdoy else is calling it is completely irrelevant.</p>
<p>I think the idea was that it was “gaming the system” to audit the class instead of taking it for credit, to avoid having to report the results. But I think that’s pretty silly–it’s not much different from doing self-study before taking the course.</p>
<p>^ Except you won’t post a self-imposed grade of F if you don’t read the book.</p>
<p>The way this was posed:
It is like gaming the system. The idea was to never forward that credit OR audit if it did have to be forwarded. The OP wanted the benefit of a college course without being penalized for a mis-step. I can see how some med schools might see that as gaming the system.</p>
<p>I cant figure out how a attending a $50,000/year college is “gaming the system”.</p>
<p>Also, full pay rather than scholarships. Some people are full pay because, well they just have the financial means to be (or the schools think they do!). A lot of them would love to qualify for some FA.</p>
<p>I think the difference between gaming the system and simply doing what gets you the most knowledge and a better education is a question of intent.</p>
<p>In your child’s case, he wanted (he? sorry, forgot) to catch up on a subject he should have already known by college, but which, due to circumstances beyond his control, he was not as skilled in as he ought to have been. I see it as wanting to make up for lost possibilities, not get ahead of the game in the future. Presumably the benefit would come from the 4-year college’s being a slightly easier course, since initially you were considering him taking it for a grade. That’s not “gaming the system”.</p>
<p>On the other hand, auditing course after course and taking seven years to graduate with a BS, because you took each course twice, in order to get a GPA that would get you funded, though your natural talent and ability to put in the effort are far below what the GPA suggests, would be gaming the system. Unless you planned to pay double for med school by repeating each course, you would be asking to be admitted based on false pretenses.</p>
<p>Doing it once to make up for lack of skill gained in high school=a good idea.
Doing it repeatedly to mask lack of natural talent=disingenuous.</p>
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<p>The OP specifically stated that the quality of high school instruction in that subject was poor, and that the child wanted to make up the material before taking it in college.</p>
<p>Hence, only auditing this one class, and not the entire curriculum. I think that makes sense. There are some classes you have to take again in college, in which everyone else has a good base from high school. It’s reasonable to play catch up if you essentially missed that part of high school.</p>
<p>“Doing it once to make up for lack of skill gained in high school=a good idea.
Doing it repeatedly to mask lack of natural talent=disingenuous.”</p>
<p>I don’t think I would call that disengenuous. Some people are lacking in natural talent in certain subjects. Taking a course that someone struggles with, repetitively, in order to get a required high grade or to understand the material is merely caring enough to do what is required. We don’t all have natural talent for every single subject. Nobody would want to spend several years repeating the same classes, but if it’s auditing a class one has trouble with, taking it at a community college, attending it and then dropping it at the last possible moment…whose business is it but the students? It is an intelligent strategy that shows motivation and caring, though I don’t think it is in the student’s best interest to reveal every possible weakness and struggle to the med school.</p>
<p>Every good applicant figures out what they need to do to be successful in their pursuits. You can’t just let it all happen, and think the schools will just know how great you are. A successful applicant will portray themselves in the most positive light possible.</p>
<p>"In terms of medical school applications, all college courses taken or attempted, whether taken for credit or not, whether taken for a degree or not, MUST be reported. Taking or auditing a course and not reporting to the college is one thing, but not reporting it on a medical school application is perjury. "</p>
<p>Are you serious? My God, if you drop a class and don’t put it down on your med school application, can you go to jail for perjury? What if you just go for a week, a day? What if you sit in a class for a day to observe? What if you take an adult non-credit class at a college on jewelry making and forget to put it down? Can they have you charged with perjury? Gosh, those must be some really long med school applications, and alot of people going to jail for omitting auditing those community college classes.</p>
<p>Okay, obviously I’m being silly! But that just blows me away, wow.</p>
<p>Busdriver…if you drop a class, it will STILL appear on your college transcript. What the OP is proposing to do is to take a course at multiple places and ONLY send the course that has the best grade…or whatever…and not report having taken the course at another school. I’m sorry but I believe this is not honest.</p>
<p>There is a difference between paying for a SAT prep course or private school…nothing dishonest there, and CHOOSING not to send a transcript for a college course when the school (med school) requires it. In my opinion, that is being dishonest in ones application.</p>
<p>What the OP is proposing to do is to take a course at multiple places and ONLY send the course that has the best grade.</p>
<p>What I was asking for was what is permissible and what is not… What is legal and what is not. wayoutwestmom took the time to find the information for me and I deeply appreciate it. Clearly, one cannot enroll in a class for any reason and not report the enrolled class to med schools if the class is taken in the U.S., U.S. territory or Canadian post secondary. It seems that to continue with this strategy, the class would have to be taken outside of these countries. Their are those who would not see this as a obstacle…indeed, some will see it as killing two birds with one stone…lol…well rounded in travels + a better understanding of the class audited…it’s only money…lol</p>
But that just blows me away, wow.</p>