<p>First of all, I would like to thank both curmudgeon and miamiDAP for all the advice, especially curmudgeon. I am doing as much research as possible right now and looking for the best possible choices out there. At the moment I am taking a huge college trip visiting many college in the northeast US, and thats what prompted to post on this thread. I will definitely follow your advice and read all the posts on your approach to this. Just a couple quick questions: 1) How good is merit aid at Emory and Rice, cause I have heard its so so. 2) I was going to take the SAT again because of potential national merit requirements where i heard you have to retake it your senior year if you made semifinalist (i got a 225 on my PSAT, so i am pretty sure I made it), but shouldn’t I still report both ACT and SAT? 3) I have never really heard of Case, any chance you could expand on that for premed? 4) Any ideas on NYU and UF premed?
Once again thank you very much.</p>
<p>In regard to Case, if you heard about Cleveland Clinic (#2 in the world after Mayo, #1 in the world in Cardilogy), that is good enough to take a look at it. But some do not feel comfy in Cleveland, where it is opposite for my D. So, again, only visiting can make it yey or ney.</p>
<p>…NYU is in a middle of NYC. NYU kept sending packages to my D. for some reason, she would never go that far, even though her big bro. lives there and loves it. We do not like NYC. Again, very much a personal preference. I believe it is very expansive, I do not know about their Merit packages.</p>
<p>Sorry, different topic: roughly how long does it take after a secondary is filed to hear about an interview or a rejection?</p>
<p>Dad. Try that on the 2011 applicants thread for responses. In my D’s case it was from several hours (Chicago reject) to still waiting (Stanford).</p>
<p>It could take from hours to months. It’ll vary from school to school and literally could take 6 months…</p>
<p>mom2, lasagna: you need to listen to what MiamiDap and others are saying. I have been on several adcoms for med schools. The school does not really matter on the whole. What matters most is old boy. If your teacher is good friends with someone on the adcom and calls and says that “bob walks on water” and bob has great grades, mcats, etc - then he is probably guaranteed admission. The same is true for residency. We want kids that will succeed and and will be an addition to our school. If someone we know and trust who knows the kid vouches for him/her, he/she is in.
That person may or may not be at one of the top schools. I have recommendations from Nobel Prize winners at Stanford and Harvard and one from the Pope and one from a President which were weighed no heavier than those of an English teacher if I did not know the person (and yes as a trauma surgeon, I am God but I don’t know the Pope).</p>
<p>Second. Grades and MCAT.</p>
<p>Third. Letters</p>
<p>Most of us do not want the Duggie Howards. I don’t like 6 year BS//MD grads for our residency program as they are not “people”. I want someone to graduate who is a person, not a nerd.</p>
<p>Being a science major is a negative for me and alot of my colleagues. I will rate an English scholar much higher (with good grades in organic and calculus) higher than a bio major with equally good grades.</p>
<p>Going to Duke or Harvard will not get you into a medical school (other than the associated Duke or Harvard) than going to State School. If you want to get into Harvard med school, you will have a better chance if you go to Harvard undergrad. But this is related to my first paragraph - we know the profs.</p>
<p>As to money and ending up in debt. That is part of it. Most of my colleagues owed money until they were in their 50s. So what. It is like a home loan or a car loan. Don’t worry about it. It is part of being a doc.</p>
<p>Being a surgeon is probably the best job in the world. Unlike internists who push pills, I cure diseases. I don’t see my family at times. I come in at 4 in the morning to operate. So what, I love it.</p>
<p>
Isn’t that awfully rough on internists - generally they are the ones who determine a surgeon ought to be seen in the first place. Then again, I know internists who feel similarly towards ER physicians, who feel that way about xyz physicians, and so on…</p>
<p>If your point two, above, is accurate, which I generally am told is the case, that would point to another factor that we don’t have control over that’s as significant - race - as seen by the mcat/grade/acceptance rate table 25 grids on AAMC. </p>
<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html</a></p>
<p>@Princess’Dad</p>
<p>I’m curious, why exactly would you rate an english major MUCH higher than a science major? That seems sort of contradictive, because the MCAT is based on science. Medicine is based on science. If a student does research in science its a +. Being an english major doesn’t make one anymore of a person than a science major. And isn’t the main purpose of the interview process to weed out those who aren’t people persons? Why come to a conclusion based on major when you can base it on the interview, which is way more indepth. I know sport science and spanish majors who are premeds that have detestable attitudes, and biochem majors that would be the perfect doctor (can make anyone laugh etc).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>WHETHER there is a such ‘old boy’ in the department or school you are currently attending or not is beyond your control like the ‘race’ factor.</p>
<p>
it seems to me, Princess’Dad’s (biased) opinion is specifically for the practicing doctors, not for the research doctors, if there is such a distinction. My layman’s opinion is that science, especially in the advanced math, physics, biochem, and biology courses, is very important as HMS 2016 premed requirments indicate. And this science backgrounds would be hard to acquire sufficiently within the limited college time if you are an English major. A science major could probably do it within the 4-5 college years. The revised HMS premed requirements indicate, at least to me, that even the practicing doctors may need a rather good science background, which the English majors would have difficulty, to keep abreast with the rapidly developing medical field during one’s career.</p>
<p>Actually, Princess Dad’s opinion is just his opinion. If you look at the statistics, acceptance rates as well as accepted GPA/MCAT scores are virtually identical across all majors. One of the more frustrating things about admissions is that there is a lot of subjectivity in the process. Someone who is a bio major and has a 3.9/37 may very well get interviews at Northwestern and Hopkins but not Harvard or Duke. It may well be that someone with a bias against science majors read his application and punished him for it. But, it’s not something you can anticipate or control. In the end, if you want an enjoyable 4 years of college, major in something you like, whether it’s bio or English.</p>
<p>^^Exactly. Just like undergrad admissions, some things are just out of your control. I remember an adcom posting on cc that he personally gave a plus factor to students who had taken calc in HS whereas his colleague at the same college gave bonus points to those who performed in theater in HS.</p>
<p>People have to realize that doctors, especially the old-school docs, have their opinions on various matters and it clouds how they read applications and interview applicants. I’ve met surgeons who still don’t believe females should be doctors. That’s bordering on illegal. But, unfortunately, these docs are still reading applications. Luckily, I think the newer generation of doctors are far more open-minded towards these things and try not to penalize people based on things like their major or their sex or their race.</p>
<p>I realize that they have bias as humans, I am just wondering why lol. PD sounds like as if they have a reason for it, I’m curious to what that reason is.</p>
<p>Princess’Dad,
It is funny to read almost exact thing that I have been telling to my D. Connected are first, so try to be at the top of the second group. And while trying your hardest, you actually create your future connections. It all has happened so far in regard to getting to awesome Med. School from state UG (yes, no debt so far, being on full Merit scholsrship in UG). In regard to majors, D’s Music minor was the most common subject duing Med School interviews while the second most common was her unsusual for pre-med volunteering. She herself said several times that her thingking in solving problems in Physics (as one example) seems to be different due to her involvement with Music (I do not know exactly what this means). However, we know for sure, that Music Minor had no influence on D’s Med. School acceptances. It definitely were her college GPA and MCAT and as a third one - LOR’s.<br>
I believe that your post is very much to the facts (proven to be true at least in my D’s case) than many others who rely on many fantasies. </p>
<p>But again, if one wants to go to Harvard, why not? Get accepted, have money lined up and go for it. Admirable goal!</p>
<p>Quoting Princess Dad: “Going to Duke or Harvard will not get you into a medical school (other than the associated Duke or Harvard) than going to State School. If you want to get into Harvard med school, you will have a better chance if you go to Harvard undergrad. But this is related to my first paragraph - we know the profs.”</p>
<p>@Princess Dad</p>
<p>I think this discussion (<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/283354-list-good-85-matriculation-premed-programs.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/283354-list-good-85-matriculation-premed-programs.html</a>) sums up that undergrad does matter. BDM and a lot of other posters generally agreed that schools like the ivies, duke, jhu, washu, and the like have higher med school acceptance rates (~70%+). In their discussion, they were only comparing these above schools to the UCs and the general consensus was that these schools are “better” premed schools than the UCs because the UCs have med school acceptance rates in the 50-60%s. So I am going to extrapolate and say that the UCs are “better” premed schools than your average state school b/c it is ranked higher/more prestigious (w/e). Therefore, schools like the ivies and the ones I mentioned above are “better” premed schools than your average state schools because they can boast that 70%+ med school acceptance rate whereas your average state school cannot do the same.</p>
<p>^^The problem with your conclusion is that “schools like the ivies, duke, jhu, washu, and the like” prescreen for excellent test takers (using the SAT/ACT). Thus, one would expect that their students would do very well on the mcat (and lsat), and indeed they do. In contrast, the UC’s do not focus as much on test scores, and I would submit that their students are not as good as test takers. Since the mcat is ~50% of the prescreen app process, schools with excellent test takers WILL do better by definition.</p>
<p>mom2, lasagna: you need to listen to what MiamiDap and others are saying. I have been on several adcoms for med schools. The school does not really matter on the whole. What matters most is old boy. If your teacher is good friends with someone on the adcom and calls and says that “bob walks on water” and bob has great grades, mcats, etc - then he is probably guaranteed admission. The same is true for residency. </p>
<p>Am I the “mom2” that you’re referring to? I’m not one who thinks an undergrad has to go to “top name” school if that’s what you’re thinking. However, I would hesitate to go to a 3rd/4th tier school that does NOT have strong science programs (many do, but some DON’T). </p>
<p>There is a 4th tier school in my region that my H and others will not hire its engineers. Those grads simply aren’t taught nearly enough…they can’t even do calculus. </p>
<p>* I have recommendations from Nobel Prize winners at Stanford and Harvard and one from the Pope and one from a President which were weighed no heavier than those of an English teacher if I did not know the person (and yes as a trauma surgeon, I am God but I don’t know the Pope).*</p>
<p>oh my…you got a rec from the Pope!!! Which one? JPII? Benedict XVI?? Wow. I can’t imagine that the Pope does LORs. I mean I guess maybe one of his ass’ts does them. …but really, just wow.</p>
<p>Was this student a priest???</p>
<p>LOL…I keep wondering if my son could somehow snag a pope rec… We know a priest who was Ratzinger’s protege as a PhD student in Germany…hmmm. Nah…but wouldn’t that be amazing.</p>
<p>bluebayou, I agree with what you are saying. Good test takers usually end up with high SAT scores and then go on to top colleges and get high MCATs, which allow the majority of them to enjoy success in med school admissions. However, if those same students have opted for a lower ranked/not-so-top college, they would probably have also gotten into med school. So then what is the point of going to a top UG if you can achieve the same goal (med school) via a state college?</p>