Get ready for UF to lose many top professors

I’ll bite. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I think the tenure system in academia is both outdated and unnecessary. It should be abolished. I’m also not a fan or the seniority system used in some jobs - antiquated, unnecessary.

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For cause termination is always allowed-that does not change the fact that academics have lifetime appointments, ( like federal judges, actually) while most of the rest of us work under contracts for a specific period, or at-will. It is a very rare form of employment, with both good and bad aspects to it. Generally employment is subject to market forces. Whether this is good or bad for academics is subject to debate.

My guess is that many young academics/post docs/ doctoral students do not object to the change.

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How many profs does this new law impact? Does anyone know the proportion of tenure/TT profs at Florida publics (a fast search came up empty)?Nationwide we are around 70% off the tenure track, so wondering if this is something to get whipped up about….seems the market has spoken for the last several decades.

I agree with roycroftmom who asked where are these tenured profs going to go?

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My daughter’s favorite professor is going to UCSB. No idea if the reasonis related to any of this.

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July and no mass exodus.

Below is the text of the law (which is surprisingly short) that addresses tenure reviews. It’s basically a job review, every 5 years. It’s done by the board, but I’m sure the university/faculty will come up with the metrics (which the board will approve and then use). Some folks may actually get a pay raise out of it (“compensation consideration”).

It’s the state legislature “feeling” that some tenure faculty, in some fields, productivity drop after they get tenure.

I expect it will be a very rare thing for someone to lose tenure. We’ll see in a few years.

Section 1. Present paragraphs (b), (c), and (d) of
61 subsection (6) of section 1001.706, Florida Statutes, are
62 redesignated as paragraphs (c), (d), and (e), respectively, and
63 a new paragraph (b) is added to that subsection, to read:
64 1001.706 Powers and duties of the Board of Governors.—
65 (6) POWERS AND DUTIES RELATING TO PERSONNEL.—
66 (b) The Board of Governors may adopt a regulation requiring
67 each tenured state university faculty member to undergo a
68 comprehensive post-tenure review every 5 years. The board may
69 include other considerations in the regulation, but the
70 regulation must address:
71 1. Accomplishments and productivity;
72 2. Assigned duties in research, teaching, and service;
73 3. Performance metrics, evaluations, and ratings; and
74 4. Recognition and compensation considerations, as well as
75 improvement plans and consequences for underperformance.

The star professors won’t have any problems finding jobs in other universities. The academic market might be hard for newly graduating PhDs, but not for proven scientists.

On the other hand, I am “sure” that DeSantis comments are completely unbiased. Are they?

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Do you have argument for this statement?

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I personally know a few professors that didn’t have any problems finding tenured jobs at other universities when they decided to move.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

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Not to mention that higher ed is still experiencing the effects of the Great Resignation post-Covid. Lots of turnover with both staff and faculty positions still and many open positions remaining unfilled after failed searches. Salary compression issues at public universities often lead faculty to search for other options, either in hopes of negotiating a higher salary where they are currently or finding a location they prefer and accepting the new role. We are seeing a lot more of that taking place in my state right now.

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“We need to make sure the faculty are held accountable and make sure they don’t just have tenure forever without having any type of ways to hold them accountable or evaluate what they’re doing,” DeSantis said. “It’s all about trying to make these institutions more in line with what the state’s priorities are and, frankly, the priorities of the parents throughout the state of Florida.”

Doesn’t seem that biased to me. Public school employees are paid by the public. The public should have the ability to review their performance.

Yes.

Would he be saying that if there were not (yours and his) fantasies that the academia is biased agains conservatism?

The public can’t review the star professors that will CHOOSE not to work for the public schools in Florida.

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Hi folks,
A reminder that debate is not allowed as per Forum Rules.

If you find yourself addressing a specific CC member more than once, it’s probably a good idea to move the conversation forward rather than respond to baiting. Several posts hidden.

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No, why should a professor’s teachings be in line with “the states priorities” or for that matter why should a professor’s teachings be affected by anything some parent has to say? If your parents are commenting on your college classes, there are much bigger problems for starters. I can guarantee nobody in my family every saw a single textbook or curriculum when I was in college 30 years ago. If someone is still crying about what their 22 year old is learning in college, you really don’t understand the concept of education at all. As for “In line with the states priorities” - if you are teaching a class on Shakespeare what exactly are the “state’s priorities”? How about a class on weather? A class on compressible aerodynamics? Screenplay 101? Calculus 1? How about a PE class? What about Physics? Latin 301? Comparative Portugues Literature? What could the states priorities be on any of these? If this isn’t governmental overreach I don’t know what is. And this from the party that is always claiming they want less government. Next they are going to tell the people what color socks they can wear each day of the week, and remember don’t say gay and don’t teach historical facts that might cause a white christian kid to be upset.

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Lots of flagged posts so I’m putting this on slow mode.

It is quite telling that some professors are horrified by the idea of performance reviews every 5 years. Perhaps a bit of exposure to the modern working world will benefit both them and their students.

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This is not about a legitimate performance review. This is about an anti-science, anti-logic, theocratic witch hunt that is pure politics at the expense of education and free thought. The ramifications of this madness won’t be felt overnight, or maybe even in the next year, but they will be felt.

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Are you saying that in the past EVERYBODY had tenure, and now only the ancient professors have it?

Usually, when there is a certain rule, there is a REASON for it to be set. What changed that makes tenure obsolete?