Get rid of the luge event?

jym626 · February 12, 2010, 7:03pm

The tragic death of the Georgian olympic luge rider will cast a large shadow over the opening ceremonies tonight. Prophetic words from a female luger earlier this week:

Many sports carry inherent risk. Where is the line to be drawn?

Greta · February 12, 2010, 8:04pm

Yes. Get rid of it. The technology to go fast (track and luge combined) now far exceeds any semblance of safety for these athletes. Vanoc was warned that this track was too fast. Tragic.

BunsenBurner · February 12, 2010, 8:09pm

Jym, here is a link to the full story:

[Luge</a> must be shut down after tragedy - 2010 Olympics - Yahoo! Sports](<a href=“Sports News, Scores, Fantasy Games - Yahoo Sports”>Sports News, Scores, Fantasy Games - Yahoo Sports)

Three athletes have been hurt on that track in a short period of time, and one of them died. It is my understanding that there is no “standard” luge track design - please correct me if I’m wrong. There is something about that particular track design that makes it so dangerous. It needs to be shut down and redesigned.

missypie · February 12, 2010, 8:45pm

Do the US luge folks ever come to recruit kids in your area? We know a family whose son was recruited in elementary school and has pretty much grown up in Lake Placid, training luge. He’s young (19 or 20) and he’ll be an Olympic contender once he current crop of older guys retire. The first person I thought of when I heard about the luging death was that kid’s mother. What must she be thinking about the sport they have allowed their son to pursue to the exclusion of everything else?

sunnyflorida · February 12, 2010, 8:49pm

My guess is that they can slow down the track, or make alterations on the equipment that will slow things down. Golf can keep the ball from going too far, NASCAR can keep the cars from going too fast. Can’t they alter the surface of the track or alter the sleds to take the speed down?

starbright · February 12, 2010, 8:58pm

This is very tragic.

aj725 · February 12, 2010, 11:22pm

It seems that they can slow down the track by changing the angles so people exit the turns at slower speeds. Also, shouldn’t the track be higher on both sides or have some sort of protected wall so that if the athlete loses control they don’t actually fly out of the track?? I can’t believe that this particular track has unprotected steel columns right outside of it so if someone flies out they risk hitting a column head first. I personally can’t believe they are going forward with the use of this track – I guess there’s no choice but so many people have been hurt already.

Cuse0507 · February 12, 2010, 11:24pm

Maybe they should start with not placing large steel poles in the area immediately surrounding the track.

maineparent · February 13, 2010, 12:17am

spot on Cuse0507…you called this one… no one can survive hitting a steel pole at 90mph… how can anyone watch this event knowing that at any instant someone can die?

There are several events that seem to have lost their way… watching the Xgames recently, folks were crashing left and right on the bordercross events… major injuries… some of the skiers go so fast they too will face serious injuries if they lose an edge…

soccerguy315 · February 13, 2010, 12:53am

these tracks might start being a full tube instead of just the bottom half. Put plexiglas on the top. Yea, you can still crash, but you would slide down the ice instead of crashing into a metal pole.

momlove · February 13, 2010, 1:34am

This just makes it all even worse, if it is true.

From SI.com:

One U.S. slider says that some blame should be placed with Canadian Olympic organizers for not granting international athletes more access to the course before the Games. The Vancouver Organizing Committee did add extra training time for the sliding course because of its difficulty, but U.S. athletes told SI that they had had only around 40 practice runs, while the Canadians had hundreds. “The selfishness of the Canadian sliding federations just killed somebody,” the athlete says. “We all know about keeping countries off the track [strategically], but at the world championships in Lake Placid [last year] they knew the course was difficult, so the track manager left the course open. We didn’t always like that, but no one got hurt.”

Even before Friday’s tragedy, course access was a bone of contention. U.S. bobsled driver Steve Holcomb, reigning world champion in the four-man event, said last week that the unequal practice time motivated him all the more to beat the Canadians.

Shameful if the IOC does not have the power or the will to monitor and make sure these things are equitable, if this is true.

theskylitup · February 13, 2010, 2:09am

^ That sounds absolutely awful.

In relation to Canadians and restricting the training to make the most of their home advantage - some of the words coming out of the officials’ mouths make me feel quite sick.

–By Joe Warmington, Toronto Sun
[Is</a> this worth dying for? | Joe Warmington | Columnists | News | Toronto Sun](<a href=“http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2010/02/12/12863566.html]Is”>http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2010/02/12/12863566.html)

“The selfishness of the Canadian sliding federations just killed somebody”

— Anonymous American slider

Forget about the “Own the Podium” slogan because as a country we are going to be owning this disaster for a long time to come.

The death of Georgian luge competitor Nodar Kumaritashvili is ugly. The video evidence show that clearly. But it’s also ugly because it was not necessary and someone from the Canadian Olympic movement is going to have to stand up and admit this reality.

Of course, we can try to gloss this over, but as Canadians we need to know exactly what happened here with the death of the 21-year-old on the luge track at Whistler.

And we will demand to know! The allegations are scurrilous. The allegations are that Canadian sliders got hundreds of training runs on the treacherous course while our visitors got very few.

Is all of this okay with you? Is it really worth it to have an extra medal to be this competitive?

The other aspect that can’t be swept under the carpet is why it was that this track had beams placed in such a way that someone could fly into them at speeds of 143 km per hour. I ask here in case CTV doesn’t get around to asking. It was embarrassing yesterday watching them go on and on about the stupid torch run while this real story was happening. It was perhaps more embarrassing than the home-turf advantage scandal.

“We all know about keeping countries off the track but at the world championships in Lake Placid they knew the course was difficult, so the track manager left the course open,” the U.S. slider told Sports Illustrated’s great writer David Epstein.

SI.com also quotes world champion U.S. bobsled driver Steve Holcomb naming one corner the “50/50 curve” because half the teams flipped over in training. “Imagine tripping and falling down on the street … Now jump out of a moving car at 90 mph. It’s much worse at higher speeds.”

And this is the track that Canadian officials would not allow visiting nations get proper access to train on? So much for the Canadian image of being gracious and benign ambassadors to the world.

And so much for sportsmanship too. But the truth is this problem is not new.

In a April 7, 2009, story Canadian Press reporter Jim Morris wrote a story of how Canada was limiting training at several venues.

“There are a lot of resources getting spent on making this training possible,” said Max Gartner, Alpine Canada’s chief athletics officer. “We told all the other teams … we cannot have anybody train with us. This is a Canadian advantage we are not going to give away.’’

Medal hopeful skier Erik Guay said “I think a lot of the time Canadians can be too nice … we’re not letting anyone come and train on the hill. I think that’s important. It will give us the advantage for once. We never really have the advantage. I think we will at home.’’

Canadian Olympic Committee CEO Chris Rudge said “it’s not inappropriate for us to have more time on these facilities than some of the other countries may have, as long as we are not prohibiting them from their fair share,’’ said Rudge. “We are investing considerably to bring these Games to Canada. A return on that investment is expected by Canadians.”

Of course I wouldn’t want to be the one to tell all of that to the Kumaritashvili family.

starbright · February 13, 2010, 3:59am

From what I’ve read it sounds like this track is dangerously built and that is what led to this horrible death.

I’m not sure how being restricted from the track would have made it safer however (maybe I’m mistaken about this sport, but it seems to me you can’t gradually get ‘used to it’: you go down and deal with the speed, period…it was on his second run…if he had been on his second run two weeks ago, it still was just as risky).

starbright · February 13, 2010, 4:05am

BTW, here is the entire article from April 2009…not just the selected quotes but the whole picture that provides much more context:

Canada not cheating by limiting access to Olympic venues prior to Games
The Canadian Press
By Jim Morris, The Canadian Press Posted Tuesday, April 7, 2009 2:06 PM ET
Share This:
RELATED
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Alpine team build home field advantage
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Oval access not an advantage for Canada
COUNTRIES

ATHLETES
Erik Guay
Jeff Christie
WHISTLER, B.C. - Aksel Lund Svindal has spent plenty of time training with the Canadian alpine ski team over the years.

But late last month, the reigning overall World Cup champion from Norway could only stand on the outside the fence and watch the Canadian team practise on the downhill course that will be used for the 2010 Winter Olympics.

At least Svindal had company. Austria’s Michael Walchhofer, the World Cup downhill champion, also was barred from training on the Whistler course.

Max Gartner, Alpine Canada’s chief athletics officer, makes no apologies for hanging out the Canadians only sign.

"There are a lot of resources getting spent on making this training possible,‘’ said Gartner. "We told all the other teams . . . we cannot have anybody train with us.

"This is a Canadian advantage we are not going to give away.‘’

Erik Guay, one of the Canadian skiers looking to win Olympic gold next February, has no problem with limiting access.

"I think a lot of the time Canadians can be too nice,‘’ the Mont-Tremblant, Que., native said in a recent interview. "If you look at any other nation, they would be doing the same thing.

"We’re not letting anyone come and train on the hill. I think that’s important. It will give us the advantage for once. We never really have the advantage. I think we will at home.‘’

Athletes and sports officials talk about the home-field advantage that goes along with hosting the Olympics. Canada’s goal at the 2010 Games is to win more medals than any other country.

The Vancouver organizing committee, known as VANOC, spent $580 million building or upgrading venues for the Feb. 12-28 Games. All were open at least one year in advance to give Canadian athletes time to practise in the facilities.

This has raised the question of how much access should be given to athletes from other countries. Is Canada cheating by slamming the door in their faces? Would Canada lose its edge by giving foreign teams too much time to train in the Olympic venues?

Chris Rudge, chief executive officer for the Canadian Olympic Committee, said Canada is following the rules when it comes to foreigners using venues.

"It’s not inappropriate for us to have more time on these facilities than some of the other countries may have, as long as we are not prohibiting them from their fair share,‘’ said Rudge. "We are investing considerably to bring these Games to Canada. A return on that investment is expected by Canadians.

"I don’t think we are doing anything at these Games that is inconsistent with what has gone on at other Games in the past.‘’

Cathy Priestner Allinger, a VANOC executive vice-president, bristled at the suggestion the Canadian beaver is turning into a weasel.

"We’ve absolutely been fair,‘’ said the former speedskater who is in charge of sport and Games operations for VANOC. "In fact, we have exceeded what is required of us.‘’

Each sports federation sets rules for international competition and practice time in Olympic venues prior to the Games, said Priestner Allinger. Usually a World Cup event or world championship competition is staged at a facility. Not only does this give the athletes a chance to familiarize themselves with the venue, it’s an opportunity for organizers to work out any bugs.

"We are obliged to run the sports events for every discipline so that anyone who is eligible to compete at those events can get onto our venues,‘’ she said. "The training varies depending on who owns the venue and what the requirements of that sport might be.‘’

Between January and the end of March, seven World Cup events were staged at Olympic venues in Vancouver and Whistler. In addition, the Four Continents figure skating meet was held at the Pacific Coliseum and the world single distance speedskating championships at the Olympic Oval in Richmond.

Both the world junior and world wheelchair curling championships were used to test the Vancouver Olympic Centre, site of the curling competition during the Games.

A controversy erupted in March when it was reported long-track speedskaters from outside Canada were being denied training time at the Richmond Oval.

Brian Rahill, high performance program director for Speed Skating Canada, denied anyone was being treated unfairly.

Some of the teams had not followed proper protocol in booking time, he said. Others were denied access because there was work being done in the building.

"No one has been turned away,‘’ said Rahill.

In some instances, VANOC and the sports federations have increased access.

The new track at the Whistler Sliding Centre - home to bobsled, luge and skeleton - is so fast and technical, extra training weeks have been added, said Priestner Allinger.

That didn’t happen prior to the 2006 Olympics in Turin, Italy, said Jeff Christie, a luge athlete from Vancouver.

"At the Olympics in Italy we had zero extra,‘’ said Christie. "They actually gave us less than exactly what we were supposed to get. They didn’t have any qualms about it because they gave their home team the advantage.

"In a sport like luge, that’s the way it goes. I go onto other tracks in the world, a lot of the German tracks, where I get six runs before a World Cup event and they train on it their whole lives.‘’

Priestner Allinger said management at the Pacific Coliseum, home to figure skating and short-track speedskating, has offered ice to other countries on a pay-as-you-go basis. So far, most countries have not taken the arena up on its offer, she said.

Other host nations have also played it close to the vest on the issue of Olympic venue access.

Peter Judge, chief executive officer for the Canadian Freestyle Ski Association, remembers the World Cup events hosted by the U.S. team prior to the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympics.

"Their mogul course builder built the course differently for all the World Cups that led up to the Games, but for their home-field advantage training camp, built it the way it was going to be for the Olympic Games,‘’ said Judge.

Priestner Allinger said the Turin organizing committee also played some tricks.

"I can tell you the Canadian short-track team and the figure skating teams did not get on the ice once in Turin prior to the Olympic Games,‘’ she said. "They chose to hold a sport event that was the European championships, so it excluded America.‘’

Gartner thought he had an agreement in place for Canadians skiers to train with the Italian team on the Olympic course prior to Turin.

"They played all sorts of games,‘’ he said. "We ended up getting no training.‘’

Judge recently had an argument with a friend of his from the Australian Olympic team. The Australian was angry his skiers were prevented from practising on the Olympic moguls course at Cypress Mountain.

The freestyle association used $15,000 from the Own the Podium program to build the course for a training camp, said Judge.

"How could I justify going to my funding partner and saying `You are going to give us X amount of dollars to build this course so we can have training, and then we are going to let one of our prime competitors come on and train?‘’’ he said.

While some sports closely guard their venues, cross-country skiing has an open-door policy.

Any athlete can go to Whistler Olympic Park, purchase a ticket, and ski the course.

"Our sport culture around the world has never been to restrict asses to a venue,‘’ said Al Maddox, executive director of Cross Country Canada. "For us to take that approach would be quite odd within the sport.

"We’ve always enjoyed having the ability to go the Olympic venues to whatever degree we wanted to. Why would we impose that suddenly on our competitors just because it’s in Canada. It would have been bordering on unsportsmanlike behaviour.‘’

Judge said Canada is doing nothing wrong.

"I honestly believe that’s business,‘’ he said. "If you look at any other business model, you wouldn’t be inviting your competitors into your research and design labs.

"You keep those things to yourself.‘’

There’s no doubt the more training Canadian athletes enjoy on the Olympic venues, the better chance they have at winning medals.

Still, there is no guarantee.

During the Salt Lake City Games, American freestyle skiers won three silver medals but no gold. Italy won 11 medals in Turin. The country’s alpine skiers and bobsledders were kept off the podium.

Christie said in luge, and any other sport, the best athletes will always find a way to win.

"The top 10 athletes in the world aren’t the top 10 for no reason,‘’ he said. "It’s because they are really good at what they do and they adapt quickly.‘’

mommusic · February 13, 2010, 9:15am

Home court argument aside, I can’t imagine designing a course that allows athletes to slide off it. Centripetal force should work in their favor, if the course is properly designed. There should be enough of a curve at the top that flying out is impossible.

I smell a lawsuit. Or do they make the athletes sign a hold-harmless waiver, b/c luge is “an inherently dangerous sport”?

mommusic · February 13, 2010, 9:16am

The other scary one is skeleton, where you go VERY fast head-first on a small sled. HEADFIRST is the part that bothers me.

adam4homes · February 13, 2010, 9:51am

They could put up nets and memory foam pads to protect the athletes, but that would make it too hard to get good camera angles. Then they wouldn’t get enough viewers to sell the TV ad spots for what they want. The sad sad truth.

emeraldkity4 · February 13, 2010, 10:56am

my daughter loves the luge and she had been participating in the touring Verizon/Olympic luge courses for the past few years until they stopped to focus on training.

I don’t know what to suggest for the Olympics- but it sounds like this particular course was not well designed. Too fast at the outset, making it impossible to control speed on curves.

Access to the Olympics I think is a big reason why she is attending her current school ( In Bellingham).

I agree that limiting access to the course for competitors has made it even more dangerous ( not to mention the unpadded columns)

mimimomx3 · February 13, 2010, 12:19pm

Seriously- they couldn’t build a higher ramp around the tunnels? Pad the poles? The crass commercialism of the Olympics is a shame.

tega · February 13, 2010, 12:28pm

Yes, it is too dangerous. I always hold my breath during competition.

Get rid of the luge event?

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