<p>The paper is six years old; not the subjects or the authors.</p>
<p>The paper is six years old; not the subjects or the authors.</p>
<p>thank goodness
;)</p>
<p>Exactly. Think about how much social etiquette has changed in the last six years. We had just exited out of the 90’s, the “dark ages” of tattoos and piercings, if you will. </p>
<p>Maybe I’m biased because I live in southern California, but tattoos and piercings are very rarely thought of as “trashy” here.</p>
<p>Please dont speak for all of Socal. Tatoos are considered pretty lowbrow here in Pasadena where
“tasteful tatoo” is an oxymoron.</p>
<p>Google maps gave me 4,293 hits for tattoo addresses near Pasadena CA</p>
<p>I wonder how big the club is that considers them low brow ;)</p>
<p>And tattoos used to be counterculture. Times have changed in those respects, but the unkindness toward unattractive or different people remains a cultural constant.</p>
<p>^Exactly.</p>
<p>In most of SoCal (at least the parts I’ve been to), tattoos and piercings aren’t really looked down upon. I don’t have a tattoo, but my nose is pierced, and I’ve never had anyone treat me any differently because of it.</p>
<p>Now my Drama Teacher did ask me to take it out when we did Fiddler on the Roof, but all the girls were required to wear no jewelry because all the people were supposed to be poor and jewelry speaks to wealth.</p>
<p>Don’t be confused between what people DO think about tattoos and what you believe they SHOULD think.</p>
<p>I think that statement is equally applicable to opinions on both side of the issue
;)</p>
<p>I agree with HisGraceFillsMe that tattoos are becoming more and more normal and, if I’m correct, those who find them to separate their owners into a distinct group with certain features are a dying breed. I <em>think</em> (and may be totally wrong) that tattoos will NOT go out of fashion; rather, I think that so many people will get them that it will become as commonplace as ear piercing, and that this sort of discussion won’t be possible to have anymore in forty years.</p>
<p>HOWEVER… it’s true that, for the moment, tattoos will still be judged. And even though I have one myself and do not judged a tattoo merely by the fact that it’s ink on skin, I <em>do</em> find myself judging <em>certain</em> tattoos… whether or not that’s valid. The same way I will think someone’s a bit out of it if they haven’t yet realized that dark lip-liner with light lipstick is so freakin ugly I want to poke my eyes out with a fork when I see it. My assessment means nothing about the person’s character, but it means that I do make an assumption about said person’s judgment concerning the appropriateness of all body ornamentation - and frankly, their lack of judgment is likely permanent. Even though their makeup will wash off tonight, they’ll likely put it back on every morning until they’re in a nursing home.</p>
<p>Erg… the point I’m trying to make is that we all judge, valid or not, and that… at some point… it’s not THAT big of a deal if WE are judged. I’d rather be a potentially trashy looking, smart, happy, kind person who is AWARE ENOUGH of people’s judgments to hide my tattoo on a job interview than a classy-looking but rather dim and mean-spirited person. I’m not saying people come in those two categories only, but rather that the latter adjectives are much more important than the former in the Grand Scheme of Life etc.</p>
<p>I predict that this whole conversation will change in a few years, because technology will change. There will be tattoos that can be easily removed, and even tattoos that can be rendered visible and invisible at will. Or tattoos that dynamically change color, or even shape.</p>
<p>I agree with most of the anti-tattoo comments above.</p>
<p>Tattoos are “trashy”, i.e. they imply promiscuity and drug abuse, no matter how cute or artsy the image, or if the owner is truly as pure as the driven snow. Note that I’m not saying tattooees are promiscuous or addicts. It’s just reality (face it, deal with it) that these qualities are implied, whether they have a basis in fact or not.</p>
<p>Tattoos imply a trend-following mentality, like lemmings over the cliff, “if your friend jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, then you would too.” Whether it’s true or not, that’s what they imply.</p>
<p>Whatever piece of art you choose, in 10-20 years you will likely think it’s stupid. When 40 year-olds look at photos of themselves from 20 years ago, invariably they get a laugh out of how ridiculous they look. Hairstyles and clothing are temporary. Fashion aside, the image you choose at a young age reflects a snapshot of what you think is cool at that instant in time. Seldom do we, at 30 or 40, still see things the way we did at 18. Pity those who do.</p>
<p>I know they have new inks and such that are supposed to be easier to remove. Nonetheless it will be expensive, painful, and likely not 100% (or even close) effective.</p>
<p>All of this said, if someone simply must do the foolish thing and get a tattoo, it would be wise to place it somewhere where it is absolutely invisible in any conceivable professional or formal environment. </p>
<p>Disclaimer: My wife has a couple of tattoos she got over ten years ago when she was 18-20. She hates them, I hate them, and we’re getting them removed at great expense and agonizing pain. So, you see I’m biased.</p>
<p>So, you see I’m biased.</p>
<p>Obviously :rolleyes:
I think a comment I made on another thread applies here.
When we react strongly to something, whether it is the way someone dresses, if they are choosing to attend college or who they are going to vote for President, that says much more about ourselves, than it does the other persons decision.</p>
<p>I’m interested, emeraldkity. </p>
<p>What has my “reacting strongly” revealed about me?</p>
<p>Do you have any substantive disagreements with what I had to say?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Funny you should mention that. Something about the comments from yesterday made me think of the episode of House, M.D. where House is interviewing candidates for the fellowship after Dr. Cameron has left:</p>
<p>Dr. Roger Spain, applicant: Wow, I thought you’d be the last person to have a problem with nonconformity.</p>
<p>Dr. Gregory House: Nonconformity; right… I can’t remember the last time saw a twenty something kid with a tattoo of an Asian letter on his wrist. You are one wicked free thinker! You want to be a rebel; stop being cool. Wear a pocket protector like he does, and get a hair cut. Like the Asian kids that don’t leave the library for a twenty hours stretch. They’re the ones that don’t care what you think.</p>
<p>Dr. Gregory House: Sayonara.</p>
<hr>
<p>There’s definitely something to be said about that sort of mentality. It happens to be something I agree with. If you permanently alter yourself in pursuit of a trend, you are most likely going to be dissatisfied with that choice before too long.</p>
<p>However, I would point out that there is a distinction between “trend” and “thoughtful choice.” I know it’s crazy talk, but there are some twenty-somethings out there who really do know themselves well enough to choose a design that will represent something to them whether they’re 22 or 62. They are, admittedly, not the majority of young tattoo-getters. Perhaps it is a pity that there are those who are capable of holding their 22-year-old selves in their 62-year-old selves. I think I see it that way because I am sad for the missed youth of the 22-year-old rather than being disdainful of the 62-year-old’s refusal or inability to “grow up.”</p>
<p>The sociological implications of tattoos that you cite – promiscuity and drug abuse – tickles me pink. Not in a vicious way! I’m just absolutely fascinated about those kinds of unrelated conclusions drawn by seeing someone with some ink on their skin.</p>
<p>What is it about tattoos that promotes the image of promiscuity? Is it the fact that the wise tattoo-getter puts them in an easily concealed spot, just as you advised, which is often only visible when they are getting physical with someone? Is it because they’re drawing attention to their bodies? </p>
<p>Why drug abuse? Because needles are required, and needle use outside of the doctor’s office = drugs? Because someone willing to undergo that much pain might have the, ah, “recreational means” to deal with it? </p>
<p>Or is it all related to the reinforcement of stereotypes – you notice the drug addicts and promiscuous because of the other ways they identify themselves, see the tattoos, and make the connection? You don’t notice people with tattoos who DON’T conduct themselves that way because the tattoo isn’t the focal point? </p>
<p>(I hope this doesn’t come across as inflammatory. I obviously have my point of view, but I am honestly curious about the deeper reasons for people thinking the way they do.)</p>
<p>“What is it about tattoos that promotes the image of promiscuity…”
Undecided—read about the history of tatooing in this country and you
will find that its a cultural phenom that started in what might be considered
an “outsider” culture. Thirty or so years ago you hardly ever saw tatoos
on anyone but a carny or a sailor. Its a fashion statement that started
in lowbrow culture. It still, for many (like me) carrys lowbrow associations.
Emerald and MOWC dont like it that many of us still have these biases, but
judging from the reactions on this thread—THEY DO EXIST and should be taken into account by anyone who decides on getting a tatoo.</p>
<p>That makes sense, musicamusica. Thank you for pointing that out.</p>
<p>Should’ve done that research myself! But then I’d’ve been spending hours looking up tattoo culture and published studies instead of doing similarly for the paper I’m writing. My interest in fully exploring both sides of the issue are exactly why I try very hard to stay out of debates as much as possible. </p>
<p>I do agree that there are still people for whom a tattoo is a negative symbol. What I disagree about is that it needs to remain that way.</p>
<p>I wish they would put more of House on DVD- I haven’t seen past the first two seasons.</p>
<p>I do think that when people do something that they think is " hip" like having a design that is " tribal" or " ethnic" when it doesn’t have any personal meaning for them other than they like the way it looks is a little :rolleyes:</p>
<p>My D has one friend who has chinese character tattooed- which I thought was an odd choice as he isn’ t Chinese nor does he speak it.
However another friend has a dragon tattooed on her forearm- but not only is she Japanese, but she majored in Chinese and taught there for a year or so.</p>
<p>It doesn’t upset me that others have bias- I just like to call them on it ;)</p>
<p>My D is choosing something that is personally significant to her- her adrinka symbol she recieved in Ghana. ( she is returning to teach there at the end of summer)</p>
<p>Our ( white bread american) culture actually has few standardized rites of passage or rituals compared to some others around the world and I think that attempt to create personal relevance and meaning by finding our own even if they are borrowed from others the way we share language/words, is a good thing.</p>
<p>We have a great need to be individual- but we also have a great need to belong to a group.
Feeling connected is one reason why some of us have upward of 1000s of posts isn’t it? :)</p>
<p>Undecided—if you get a chance, check out CARNIVAL CULTURE: THE TRASHING OF TASTE IN AMERICA by James Twitchell (Columbia University Press)</p>
<p>I know it’s crazy talk, but there are some twenty-somethings out there who really do know themselves well enough to choose a design that will represent something to them whether they’re 22 or 62.</p>
<p>This is why I chose the tattoo I did. Even if The Waste Land is no longer my favorite poem at some point, I’m never going to be like, “How could I have chosen that horrid piece of crap? It’s only a widely respected literary piece by a Nobel laureate. What was I thinking?” And it gives me shivers every time I wear a top with a low back, and people stop me to say, “Let me read that.” They read it to themselves, murmuring it aloud most of the time: “Yet when we came back, late, from the hyacinth garden…” </p>
<p>I do agree that there are still people for whom a tattoo is a negative symbol. What I disagree about is that it needs to remain that way.</p>
<p>Precisely.</p>
<p>emeraldkity4: Season 3 should be out! I’m completely addicted to that show and very sad that I won’t get more useful House quotes this year after tonight.</p>
<p>Your D’s choice is the kind that I think should be standard for people who get tattoos. I seriously doubt that the cultures in which tattooing is a rite of passage would look favorably on stock cartoon images ending up under their skin. The carnival tie-in is very interesting and relevant – it speaks to me about the attempt at conveying a sense of the exotic with artificial means, something where the meaning definitely got lost in translation. Kinda makes me even more sad for the people who do go out and get a stock tattoo. </p>
<p>Still doesn’t change my mind about tattoos in general, though. I admit I tend to look a little more critically at people I see with “trendy” tattoos, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone’s tattoo and thought “druggie” or “promiscuous.” Now their style of dress and hair and make-up and the group they’re with and how they speak and what they’re doing /combined/ with the tattoo… </p>
<p>Isolating it to one factor just doesn’t work for me in any situation. </p>
<p>musicamusica: Carnivals AND their long-lasting social impact? Sounds delicious. I’ll have to pick it up once I’m finished reading about witchcraft and the occult in early modern England. … Sometimes I wonder why I majored in English. :)</p>